Wikipedia:Help desk

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Welcome to the Help desk! This is a place to ask questions about Wikipedia and get help with editing problems. We mostly answer questions from newcomers, but veterans are welcome too. Remember to check this page again (how about a bookmark?) to see whether there have been any replies. In addition, if you are a newcomer and feel like you will need an extended period of help, try posting at clueless newbies (don't take the title too seriously, after all, we were all once clueless newbies!). If you prefer to ask questions on a mailing list, please see the Help desk mailing list.

Archived questions are kept in the help desk archives.

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October 25

How can one add a "Category" to the Requested Articles page?

In checking the Wikipedia:Requested_articles page, I would like to suggest that "Medicine" be added as a new category. Subcategories might include physicians, specialties, medical discoveries, etc.

How can this be done? It is not apparent that editing the page is the correct answer.

To refer to a category without including the page where the reference is in the category, put a ":" before the "category:" part of the name (like Category:Medicine, which is already a category). Markup details are included at Wikipedia:How to edit a page, which you can find from the "Help" link on all pages. -- Rick Block (talk) 01:08, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

The reason that there is no "requested category" page, or requested category section of Wikipedia:Requested_articles, is that unlike an article, it takes no skill or exprtise or time worth mentioning to create a category. To create Cat:Foo simply put [[Category:Foo]] near the end of a relevant articel, adn save it. Then click on Foo in the categorty line, and type in a brief description of Foo, with a link to Foo or whatever seems a relevant article. Ta Da! You have created a category. DES (talk) 02:07, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks MacGyver. Just what I was looking for. It didn't occur to me to look in "Applied arts and sciences." ERcheck 05:10, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, THAT kind of category. Sorry, I misunderstood. And I'm very glad Mgm noticed. -- Rick Block (talk) 01:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)



See the tutorial at Wikipedia:Picture tutorial AND PLEASE STOP YELLING, IT'S RUDE!! Dismas|(talk) 04:04, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
There is a lot of help available. In the left-hand navigation bar, you will see "Help". Lots of information can be found by exploring there.
Specifically, for instructions on how to insert an image, see How to Edit a Page - Images; for general editing, see How to edit a page
In order to upload images you want to insert, see Special:Upload Files upload instructions
BTW. Please try to avoid the use of all capital letters; it is considered SHOUTING. Thanks. ERcheck 04:09, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

This is great!

Fantastic! I've been a journalist for 20 years in radio and have dreamed of such a project...thank you!


  • We all love wiki, kittywaymo, but this is not the place. Ask questions here. - William
  • I'm glad you like the project, Kittywaymo. I'd be even happier if you decided to register an account and help out with improving Wikipedia. - 07:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Has anyone read all of English Wikipedia?

Has anyone read 99% of English Wikipedia, after it gained a substaintial amount of articles (say: 500,000)? I want to. --William sharkey 07:49, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

doubtful as that would involve digging through a load of bot created articles which are not exactly the worlds mosting interesting read. (it wouls also involve reading articles at a rate of more than 1 per minute).Geni 12:12, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Of course if you have a burning desire to read the whole thing, these should put you off: List of places in Arkansas, Microeconomics. smurrayinaHauntedHouse...Boo!(User), (Talk) 22:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Typing request with non standard characters


I'm looking for information on something called the Pade' approximation, a method of estimating a matrix exponential. The actual name Pade should have an accent above the e, but I do not know how to insert this. Is there a way to do this, or does anyone know where I can find the info?

Thanks Colin Phillips

  • When you are at an edit window, scroll down a bit. There should be a list of accented and otherwise odd characters there. Click to insert a character at the cursor. é is Alt+130 on an English keyboard. It doesn't appear as if we've got anything on the Padé approximation, so if you need to know something about that, please visit the science reference desk. - Mgm|(talk) 08:03, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
  • See also Wikipedia:Special characters. - Mgm|(talk) 08:04, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Westminster School page

Hello, why has the page on Westminster School been given a new title of "the royal college of st. peter at westminster" ? That may be the original name as mentioned in the article, but is known to virtually no-one in this way, including most ex-pupils who would not even recognise the name at all.

  • Probably because that's the official name. I reverted to the most common use as per the Naming Conventions. - Mgm|(talk) 10:45, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


Help wanted: Make the edit links in portals like this

As the image.

I hate the edit links in content area. Why not move the links to the right corner of the box header? I tried but my solution only works in Safari and Firefox, it failed in Microsoft Internet Explorer. Anyone who familiar with HTML/CSS and help me to do so? Yaohua2000 11:24, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

You will have to suggest that to the developers and maybe it will be in the next update. -- Thorpe talk 17:34, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Lack of information?

What template do I use for an article that is lacking important information on the subject matter? I can't seem to find one that says that...

Template:Expansion or stub?

Getting a deleted article back

I am trying to get the wikipedia page for yoism back. There used to be a lot of good info in the yosim page, but it has been deleted, apparently by administrators! for reasons that don't make sense. As the yoism homepage also got hacked recently, I assume that this is part of an anti-yoism vandalism campaign.

I haven't been able to figure out how to revert the document, and requests for undelete seem to be...incomplete. Please help! (preceding unsigned comment by Qkslvrwolf (talk • contribs) 08:46, 25 October 2005)

You say that the reasons don't make sense. What are the reasons quoted? Sometimes a little too much jargon is used. Notinasnaid 15:08, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The article was deleted after going through the official deletion process. You can see the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Yoism. Recreating the article with substantially the same content will result in the article being deleted again. If you want to have the deleteion reviewed, you should post a request at WP:DRV. --GraemeL (talk) 15:11, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Upload file - new option

I noticed today there is a new option on the Special:Upload page. It has a check box next to it and says "Ignore any warnings". What exactly does this mean? -- Thorpe talk 15:41, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm guessing here but it may ignore the "Filename is missing underscores" and "Already picture with that filename" warnings that appear. Evil MonkeyHello 00:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for the information. -- Thorpe talk 17:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

why something was deleted?

I cannot understand why this was deleted:

I saw no reason posted. It isn't foul language or abusive or anything of that nature. (preceding unsigned comment by (talk • contribs) 12:18 EDT, 25 October 2005)

I can guess at reasons why it was deleted. The main one is that Wikipedia is not a dictionary or slang guide. As a short article that did not attempt to go beyond a dictionary definition, it's not really in line with what Wikipedia is about. Friday (talk) 17:28, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
(after edit conflict) In general, articles that are simply dictionary defs are not welcome on wikipedsia. See What wikipedia is not. And then an articel writtne in the dirst person "I'm not sure" is even less like an encyclopedic arilce. Strictly speaking this may not have conformed to the [[WP:CSDspeedy deletion criteria, and so arguably should hve had an WP:AFD debate, but in the current form, it would I think have been deleted without question, unless drastically rewritten. if you really want, you can ask for the deletion to be undone at deletion review, but you may not have much luck. You might do better, if you want such an article, to do enough research to write an actual article about this word and the concept behind it. That would probably not be deleted. If you have any qestions about this, feel free to drop me a note on my talk page. And please sign comments on discussion pages like this oen with four tildas (like this ~~~~). Thank you. DES (talk) 17:33, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
To find why an article was deleted, the most direct route is to search for it in the deletion log ("Special pages", then "Logs", then "Deletion log" - here for Twitterpated) and ask on the talk page of the admin who deleted it (user talk:Finlay McWalter and user talk:Postdlf in this case). If you ask politely, you'll increase your chances of getting a polite reply. If you ask rudely you should still get a polite reply, but admins are only human. -- Rick Block (talk) 00:56, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

The cold war

Please review the article about the cold war as I believe there may be a typying error within the first line. (

Thank you for your suggestion! When you feel an article needs changing, please feel free to make whatever changes you feel are needed. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit any article by simply following the Edit this page link. You don't even need to log in! (Although there are some reasons why you might like to...) The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes—they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use out the sandbox to try out your editing skills. New contributors are always welcome. DES (talk) 18:25, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Biggest Wiki Article?

What is the biggest wiki article? As in, what article on wiki has the most information. Maybe i should be asking what is the Longest article... im not sure.

(Touchy! --Quasipalm 02:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC))
I'm not sure this has the most useful information, though. The longest useful article (ie. not a list) is probably microeconomics, although Prophets of Islam and Companies listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange don't sound too boring. smurrayinaHauntedHouse...Boo!(User), (Talk) 22:07, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


How would one find spelling mistakes very quickly? Such as purplefeltangel does? Please answer on my talk page Prodego talk 19:59, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Heading over to answer unless someone else has already done so. - Mgm|(talk) 20:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Saving pages

For some reason, hitting 'Save Page' comes up with the 'Preview' page, as does pressing it again and again until it eventually goes through. Why is this (I have checked. I am definitely pressing Save Page). smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 20:10, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

It's not just you, and it's been asked before. It's some sort of bug and as far as I recall the best answer that was posted so far was "They're working on it." Dismas|(talk) 20:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. Annoyingly, it keeps happening when I try to thank you for the message! smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 21:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
Ha! Funny how life works like that sometimes.  :-) Dismas|(talk) 22:16, 25 October 2005 (UTC)


I'm trying to encourage some people I know to join and use Wikipedia. One specific query they have is the frequency of vandalism. I am attempting to find the actual frequency of all acts of vandalism on Wikipedia. I don't need the statistic processed in any way; a raw, hourly, or general figure would do. Can anybody point me in the direction of such a piece of information? --Davril2020 22:29, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

No your best bet would be to go over to Recent changes and load up a minutes' worth of changes in a tabbed browser and sift through them. repeat a couple of times to get a rough average.Geni 22:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Redirecting a search term to the correct article

The article I'm referring to is TV IV. Doing a wikipedia google search with TV IV returns the article as the first hit. With the wikipedia search, it doesn't return it at all. How can I make it so when a person searches in the wikipedia search field for 'tv iv', the article appears as one of the results. I'm sure this is in a faq somewhere...

First of all, be sure to sign your comments with --~~~~ so we know who is speaking. To answer your question, add the redirect code to the tv iv article for it to redirect to TV IV:
I've taken the liberty of adding the code, so now anyone who searches for tv iv will be redirected to TV IV. --tomf688{talk} 02:37, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Note that this redirect only affects "searches" in the sense of wikilinks, so tv iv will now link to the article. Entering "tv iv" in the "search" box and hitting "go" found the article without the redirect. And, the redirect has no effect on entering "tv iv" in the "search" box and hitting "search" (which still doesn't seem to find it). This last form of searching used to be based on an index of all wikipedia articles built somewhat infrequently (so changes and new articles didn't show up until the next time it was rebuilt), but I thought the software was recently changed to "re-index" continuously. In any event, full text searching is a distinctly secondary function of the software - it's even turned off at times (without notice) to help performance of more primary functions (retrieving and editing articles). For more on searching see Wikipedia:Searching (from the "Help" link on every page, click "How to search for an article"). -- Rick Block (talk) 13:49, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Removing NPOV from an article?

The article on incineration has a big NPOV tag on it. I've reorganised it, tried to remove the bias and organised it so that anyone wishing to add more information could do so easily. Can I just remove the NPOV? Do I need to delete it from a few different places or will deleting it from the article work. Since I did the reworking I feel uncomfortable just removing the NPOV myself without getting someone to check it over and improve it some more. Bandraoi 23:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Removing the tag from the article is all that's necessary to make it not marked that way anymore -- but you might want to post a new comment to the talk page asking for any objections, to avoid the possibility of someone turning around and adding it again right after you remove it. If no-one objects after a few days remove the tag. — mendel  02:09, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

October 26

I don't get infoboxes.

I don't suppose anybody knows what's wrong with my infobox? Here's the original article Qui-Gon Jinn and this is the one I've started: io:Qui-Gon Jinn. See, Qui-Gon's just standing there on the left completely devoid of a border. I always have a problem with the border even though I just copy and paste the exact code and after a number of occurrences it looks like I just have no idea how to work these things. Mithridates 02:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it is because the io wikipedia does not have a CSS class of "infobox" like the English Wikipedia (that class does all the formatting). I've modified to io template to get rid of the class and just use the straight formatting. Evil MonkeyHello 03:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks! That's exactly what I was hoping for. Good to see that there is also a reason why the infoboxes don't work as I didn't have a clue. Mithridates 03:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Updating "What links here"...

I've recently replaced Image:Flag of Scotland Pantone300.png with Image:Flag of Scotland.svg - the same image but in vector format for better scaling. I'm going through the list of articles that use the image and updating them to use the new one. Now most actually use it via various templates and I think I've updated most of these and the list of articles using the image should now be quite small, however the list has not updated - the articles making use of the image via a template are still listed even though the template is now using the new image. Is there anything that can be done to purge the cache and update the list of backlinks?

Thanks/Wangi 09:07, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

What you can do is dummy save the articles that are occuring as "false postives". To do this you just open up the edit window for the article and save it, without changing anything. The edit won't appear in the edit summary, but it will clear it from "What links here". Of course, this process is tedious, and there is a bot that will do this for a particular template that you nominate. Unfortunately my bot is having a rest at the moment, but I (or someone else hopefully) should be able to clear a template of your chosing later tonight - which template is causing the bother?--Commander Keane 10:24, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I'd appreciate that. The following templates used the image, and need seeing to:
A nice short list! Thanks/wangi 10:58, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, that's probably more work than I was expecting. I'll spend the next couple of days working through.--Commander Keane 14:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)




creator of the site

i am doing a project and i need to know the original creator of the site

Jimbo Wales is the founder and leader of Wikipedia. Alf melmac 12:25, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
If you need to know this for giving a source, see Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia Shimgray | talk | 14:34, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

New article doesn't appear when I search

I've just added a brand new article on the European Association for Quality Assurance in Higher Education (ENQA).

I've linked to it from the article on the Bologna declaration and now that takes you through to the new article.

It also appears in the Education category where it should do.

So why when I search for it does it not appear in the search results list? Is it just me or does it take a while for the search to pick up new articles?

--Madmedea 14:35, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Yup. The search isn't done against the live database, but rather against an index which is generated from time to time. The resources needed to recreate the index each time an article was created are immense - even Google doesn't update its index on the fly - so the index always lags. (That said, our search function isn't the best anyway, but you get what you pay for...) 15:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC) (Shimgray, not logged in)
Correct. The search is also not our strongest point anyway. Try this link to use google to search wikipedia. DES (talk) 15:32, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
There should be a message at the top of the page. Something like: "If a newly created article does not appear in the search, please wait 3-4 hours before posting. The search database can be slow to update." smurrayinaHauntedHouse...Boo!(User), (Talk) 19:58, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki link

The interwiki link to ja:昭和電工 on Showa Denko is showing up as a redlink to an article in enwiki! I can't see what's wrong with it, could someone else take a look? Cheers, Physchim62 15:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Fixed it now: Japanese is ja: not jp:!! Physchim62 15:10, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Template for book references

I've been banging my head against the arcane Help:template files, so I thought I'd come here. Caveat: this is for a Wikicities project, not Wikipedia proper, but it will help me understand templates on both sites. Also, I believe they are still on MediaWiki 1.4 for a few more days/weeks over there.

In any case: What I'd like to do is create a template that can be used to reference a particular chapter in a particular book. I've stared at the convoluted help on variables, and played in the Sandbox, to no avail. What we've got now is:

{{tgh|9}} == ''[[The Great Hunt]]'', [[The Great Hunt/Chapter 9|Chapter 9]] == The Great Hunt, Chapter 9.

We're going to use these with subst: to reduce server load. What I'd like to be able to do is twofold:

  1. Use a template for the book title, i.e. {{tgh}} expands to The Great Hunt, so we can use that as {{{1}}}. But if we can't, we can't; a dozen templates is not that bad.
  2. More importantly, some books have both Prologues and Epilogues; these obviously don't fit under the above subpage schema, and if there was a way for the template to recognize {{wh|p}} and expand it correctly to Winter's Heart, Prologue, that would be perfect.

I know the piping of the chapter link may be a problem, as well; if that's what's holding us back, we'll see if we can rework the templates. Thanks in advance. -- Nae'blis (I'm not signed in here at work)

Mysterious undeletion

Hello everyone, article I nominated for deletion (which was subsequently deleted) somehow became undeleted - the article is Flaming Milka. The history log doesn't give any insight as to how it came back, and I added subst:afd to the article again. What should I do seeing as how the article already has a deletion talk page? Does anyone know how the page was undeleted? Thank you... Paul 18:13, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

This article came up at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#verifiable_sources. According to the deletion log (which includes restores) the article was restored by user:Grue, who I suspect would be happy to discuss this with you. The usual practice when a page is relisted on WP:AFD is to add a number after the AFD page (changing references as appropriate). So, in this example, the AFD page would be Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Flaming Milka 2. -- Rick Block (talk) 19:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
First off, with only 2 votes, both delete, the article was a borderline case anyway. User:Grue undeleted it on October 22, 2005, 14:27 (UTC) and, IMO, was right in doing so. The article is written reasonably well, seems plausible, and is verifiable, even if that might involve a trip to the library. See Slaughter in Serene. Interestingly, the article was created by one User:Richard Myers, and one Richard Myers is one of the co-authors of that book mentioned at the above extlink. Even if that is a Union-sponsored book, that doesn't mean they'd invent things. Maybe the book has the sources needed, and if not, archives of Denver newspapers should have something on her. If you asked them nicely, they might even tell you for free whether or not that woman really existed. BTW, your AFD notice refers to the old vote page. Lupo 19:21, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
If Richard Myers = User:Richard Myers, doesn't that make this a form of original research? I'm not being facetious, I truly want to know if it matters that the book was only 'co-authored'. The newspaper sources, of course, would be fine, provided they get cited. 20:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
An expert on a subject, who cites his own published works, is not writing an article on "original research." See WP:NOR#The role of expert editors. -- SCZenz 20:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I am certainly surprised to see that the article was undeleted, but i am also pleased. The book is an anthology with many hundreds of footnotes, and two authors refer to Milka. Also, this is the second book to describe Milka (with both including phtographs.) So i feel the research is verifiable.
I have resolved to come back with a more carefully documented version of the article for Wikipedia, and having the article restored will make that effort easier. I note that someone has added a couple of references, and i will add more at a later time.
In my research for the book, i found references to Milka in dozens of newspapers, found her in the 1910 and 1920 census reports, and an associate found her in a city directory. I have also exchanged email with relatives.
Wikipedia does work in a mysterious manner. Just when someone did something that i felt was unjustified, someone else corrected it. Thanks, everyone, my appreciation of this wonderful website grows with each new experience. User:Richard Myers

OK for company's PR to edit articles about itself and its product?

My subject line makes this sound worse than it is, honest.

I work in the publishing arm of a huge international media company. Lately I've been looking at what information exists in Wikipedia about this publisher. There is some, but much of it incorrect. I would fix it myself, but I'm not sure I've got all the details right, either.

For this reason, I've been considering contacting my PR department and suggesting that *they* update and correct this information, since they know much more about the company's organizational structure, etc. This would not entail any significant expansion of the article, and they would of course be careful to maintain a neutral point of view. It would simply be a matter of correcting the facts on which imprints are which, and etc.

I assume that this is kosher, but I wanted to check since I know it gets murky in questions of advertizement/vanity/self-promotion. In my opinion, this would be none of the above, but I did want to solicit opinion before I approach the PR dept.

My second question is even murkier. For existing Wikipedia articles about the books that my company has published, I am assuming it would be OK for us (meaning, probably, the editorial and PR departments) to edit the articles in cases where there are factual inacuracies, provided that we are careful to maintain a neutral point of view.

However, I'm not sure how appropriate it would be for us to create *new* articles about books that we judge are important enough. I would like very much to recommend that our PR department create articles on a few books that are not currently in Wikipedia. We would probably employ some objective criteria to determine which titles are appropriate--number of weeks on the New York Times bestseller list, author prominence, number of reviews, etc--but I do worry that creating entirely new articles for a product we are selling might be crossing that nebulous line of self-promotion, even if the tone of the articles was (as it certainly would be) rigidly neutral.

So, thoughts?

--Babyhedgehog 19:19, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

User talk:

Not sure what this is all about but I seem to be getting abuse when I ahven't done anything. I found it because there was a note "you have messages" when I came to look at something.

<email removed>

I'm not sure why this comment was made here, but I myself got the same mysterious message last week (before I created this account). I haven't been vandalizing anything, and my IP address is, as I understand it, usually randomly assigned by the firewall I'm behind, so my guess was that someone else at my company was screwing with Wikipedia. But now that this guy--who is *not* at my company (I confirmed this before the email address was removed) has had the same problem with what seems to be the same IP address... well, it's very strange. --Babyhedgehog 22:01, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Strictly speaking, it is "okay". Afterall, anyone can edit wikipedia. Ideally though, people at your company would do this individually, not on company time and pay. Also, by not setting this standard, you help to ensure that wikipedia does not turn into a giant billboard for companies. You should use your best judgement. --William sharkey 20:59, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

In the interest of propriety, you could discuss the changes first on the talk page, although that would only work if the pages are being actively watched. As for the books - it all depends on whether the books are notable enough to get past AfD. If they are notable enough, then I doubt anyone would object to a neutrally written article. If you want to be fully aboveboard you could always write the articles in your user space, and then ask other editors to have a look at what you have written. It all comes down to quality - if you can write something that is NPOV, and the topic is unambiguously notable, then you are fine. You could also raise the issue at the author's article (since authors are likely to be more notable than are individual books, most of the time). Basically, be honest, be aboveboard about it, and I doubt anyone will get too upset (and if they get upset, take it in stride and with good humour). Guettarda 21:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
You might want to read WP:SPAM#How not to be a spammer for tips on avoidign the impression that you are using wikipedia as an advertising vehicle, which is generlaly objected to. DES (talk) 21:43, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

"This article is a stub. Please help Wikipedia by expanding it"

I have started a stub. My article is still pretty short and I would like to know how I can add that small line saying "This article is a stub. Please help Wikipedia by expanding it." I feel that would be a good addition for others to read. Also, I would like to know if there are other demands to be placed at the bottom of an article like "Please help cite references in the text" or "Please add external links" and so on. (preceding unsigned comment by Screwball23 (talk • contribs) 16:47 EDT, 26 October 2005 )

You can add the phrase {{stub}} to the bottom of the article. This adds the sentence automatically. That will put the general stub notice up, which is fine. Even better would be one of these more specific stub tags. Johntex\talk 21:54, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
As for other demmands on the reader: oh, yes - we have many more such templates covering things like the need to cite sources, make more neutral in tone, translate, etc. Please see this list Johntex\talk 21:57, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
(after edit conflict) Most of these are done by templates. There is a useful but long list, organized by categories at Wikipedia:Template messages. For stubs, rather than using the generic stub tempalte, please find the correct stub category for the particular article you are using. The list is at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types. Please use a proper stub tag from that list, and do not use the generic {{stub}}. You can read more about stubs in general at WP:STUB. Also please sign messages on discussion pages with four tildas (like this ~~~~). Thank you. DES (talk) 22:00, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
For anyone reading this who, like me, wanted to read the stub in question it looks like it's Christopher X. Brodeur. That the one you were referring to? Also, you can sign your posts here and on talk pages with four tildes (e.g. ~~~~). Dismas|(talk) 22:02, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
{{US-politician-stub}} seems like it might be appropriate for that article. It is a little long for a stub though, some sort of cleanup tag might be better. Johntex\talk 22:08, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Copyleft info in Source Code only?

If I use some of wikipedia's content in a website, can I place the required copyleft info in the source code rather than a visible link on the webpage? (preceding unsigned comment by (talk • contribs) 17:20 EDT, 26 October 2005)

While I am not a lawyer, nor an official of the Foundation, I think that if the information is visible to users, and you are claiming to use it under the GFDL then at the least you must have a visible acknowledgement of your source, wikipedia, with a link -- preferably a link to the specific article of which you are using text; and you must have a visible acknowlegment that the text is used under the GFDL, and a link to the text of the GFDL. See WP:FORK for more on this. DES (talk) 22:27, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
  • No you can't put the info in the source. The whole point of it is that visitors can find it easily. - Mgm|(talk) 04:43, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

(GFDL section 2)
You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License. You may not use technical measures to obstruct or control the reading or further copying of the copies you make or distribute
(GFDL section 3)
If you publish printed copies (or copies in media that commonly have printed covers) of the Document, numbering more than 100, and the Document's license notice requires Cover Texts, you must enclose the copies in covers that carry, clearly and legibly, all these Cover Texts: Front-Cover Texts on the front cover, and Back-Cover Texts on the back cover... The "Cover Texts" are certain short passages of text that are listed, as Front-Cover Texts or Back-Cover Texts, in the notice that says that the Document is released under this License. A Front-Cover Text may be at most 5 words, and a Back-Cover Text may be at most 25 words.
So in my non-lawyerly opinion, no -- if you create a webpage which verbatim-copies Wikipedia content, you have to have the equivalent of a front and back cover text. Traditionally, where webpages are concerned, we have been OK with some sort of acknowledgement at the foot of the page saying that you got it from page XXX Wikipedia (where XXX is a hyperlink back to the souce page), and that it is licensed under the GFDL. →Raul654 05:06, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
The copyright notices aren't part of the title page, they follow it!. In my view, as expressed above, Wikipedia doesn't comply with the GFDL either in this respect, although making it comply would probably make the web interface and printouts unusable. As others have noted, there is no way that hiding the licence notices in the transparent version would be acceptable. Judging by what both the GPL and GFDL say, I believe the the FSF considers it important that all recipients be made aware of the licensing status of the material.
Note that the link back in the GFDL is for unmodified opaque versions (which would properly contain the full History and set of copyright notices). What is being proposed here is a modified version, which needs to have its own transparent version and own updated History. The linked URL is also supposed to be to the transparent version, and there is no exact transparent version in Wikipedia.
Wikipedia does, effectively, contain the licence notice in opaque copies, so even being pragmatic about the real licence terms won't excuse you from including that. IANAL
--David Woolley 18:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC) (yet again had to put this in manually because of the system losing logged in status)

October 27

How to disable shortcuts?

Several of the Javascript keyboard shortcuts Wikipedia uses on OS X, such as Ctrl-W and Ctrl-E, conflict with my system-wide keyboard shortcuts. How can I disable keyboard shortcuts on Wikipedia? I have looked at the preferences but I cannot find any such option there. If this cannot be done, is there some option for me to disable Javascript altogether on Wikipedia without disabling it in my browser? --HunterX 05:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

I have asked this same question here multiple times and never received a response. All I have been able to do is try to hack out something with Greasemonkey (a Firefox extension) to forceably remove the access keys with Javascript. And even that seems to have broken now. This is really a serious accessibility problem, though I applaud the MediaWiki folks for the attempt to make it more accessible via these shortcuts. If all else fails, you might want to look into Access Key Companion. —HorsePunchKid 07:00, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
HorsePunchKid, have you tried asking at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)?--Commander Keane 08:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I have no idea if this works, but it might:
The keys are defined at the javascript include file MediaWiki:Monobook.js. Look at that page to see the syntax and try to use it to override it with custom "nonsense" keys in a user javascript file (like User:Sverdrup/monobook.js). HTH — Sverdrup 18:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I've just found a simpler solution that probably was introduced in the new 1.6 alpha. Go to your preferences, hit the Misc tab, and uncheck the Enable "jump to" irritating accessibility links box. —HorsePunchKid 20:09, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


How do I position a user box so that it is like the babel boxes, all aligned neatly along the right of the page? On the below example, can someone move it to the right so that i can view the source code? thanks! --Ballchef 05:54, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales has a big bad beard.
There you go. Titoxd(?!?) 06:03, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

oh thank you so very much. I had tried that thing but I never noticed the <-/div-> at the end. thanks thanks again. --Ballchef 01:34, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

userboxes revisited

Ok, so how do i list these userboxes along the right of the page, like babel boxes? same procedure as last time would be good, thanks. Here's three boxes to play with:

--Ballchef 01:56, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Jimmy Wales has a big bad beard.
This user contributes on Internet Explorer, and is proud of it.
Mj This user is high as a kite.
  • That's how I'd do it, in a table. Didn't know what the ":m" was though. --Commander Keane 04:52, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
That was to show you how good I am at this stuff. Thanks. --Ballchef 08:27, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Turning a proposed guideline into a guideline

I'm in the process of building consensus on a proposed guideline for inclusion of webcomics (WP:COMIC). What is the generally established procedure for turning such a proposal into a real guideline? Presumably WP:MUSIC would be a logical precedent. -- SCZenz 06:14, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

  • There's no real process to turn such a thing into a guideline. Generally, when a page has been reviewed by numerous Wikipedians and used in an AFD debate, it's considered widely acknowledged as useful and becomes a guideline automatically. The real problem lies in getting something to become policy. - 07:10, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Comics seem to be a heavily discussed topic, so it may be a good idea to announce your plans on the Village Pump and the mailing list so it gets adequate attention before you do so. - Mgm|(talk) 11:24, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
    • The village pump I can handle, the mailing list I know nothing about. Where's the info on it? -- SCZenz 11:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia:Mailing lists. - Mgm|(talk) 20:16, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Afrikaans Wikipedia


Although there is quite a bit of information on the Afrikaans language and some articles written in Afrikaans, there isn't an Afrikaans Wikipedia (under 'in other languages'). How can this be organised or set up, or what is the requirements for Wikipedia to list a language specifically?

Thanks David

Templates of how a userpage looks?

Hey there! I noticed that some userpages have 'fancy-looking' styles like tables and the like. Do they do that with HTML, C++ etc. or there's a page about this. Thanks! --Uncke Herb 09:52, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

can you give an example. As for as I know all user pages are put together with the normal mix of html and wiki markup.
  • Most userpages are a combination of HTML and wiki markup. There's no real templates, but feel free to copy the bare bones of a userpage and replace things with relevant info about yourself. I copied my layout from someone who themselves copied it from Blankfaze. - Mgm|(talk) 11:22, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


What does putting "Subst:" in front of a template wikicode do? --Commander Keane 12:13, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

When you use a template without subst, the server reads the template and includes it every time the page you added it to is loaded.
When you use subst, the server adds the content of the template to the page when you save it. This reduces the amount of work that the server needs to do every time the page is loaded as it doesn't need to go and find the template contents every time.
See Wikipedia:Transclusion costs and benefits for more information. --GraemeL (talk) 12:48, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Editing my Cologne Blue skin

From what I've read I should be able to edit my Cologne Blue skin by visiting - but when I visit that page it says:

<p>The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "User:Bodnotbod/cologneblue.js".</p> <p>If it is a recently changed page, trying again in a minute or two will usually work. Alternatively, you may have followed an outdated diff or history link to a page that has been deleted.</p> <p>If this is not the case, you may have found a bug in the software. Please report this using the procedure given at [[Wikipedia:Bug_reports]], making note of the URL.</p>

(It displays with those <p> tags unrendered and appearing as I have made them do. I haven't previously tried to edit a skin before, so whatever I'm doing wrong is probably simple. --bodnotbod 14:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Perhaps this page may help. Look at the CSS and Javascript sections. Link --Gflores 21:13, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanks, but I stumbled on that page and couldn't find anything mentioning the error message I'm getting was getting. Ah, perhaps that's just what it returns if you've never made an edit to the page before? In any case I haven't received my God Light mode as hoped. Anyone see what I've done wrong (or failed to do)? --bodnotbod 05:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

using Wiki images for a commercial site

I am putting together product images for a commercial site. What are the copyright issues surrounding using images from wikipedia?

Each image tends to be used under different copyrights. For example, some are public domain, so you could use them without fear. However, some are used under fair use which would mean that if you were to wish to use them for a commercial site you would not necessarily be able to do so. Yet other images are donated by users only if they are not for commercial projects. The best thing would be to visit the page of each image you wish to use, which you can do by clicking on it. See also Wikipedia:Copyrights#Image_guidelines. --bodnotbod 14:10, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Census I

On the site [1] there are historial census population figures for states and counties. Could a bot be used to add this data to the appropriate articles, as I have done by hand to Warren County, Ohio? PedanticallySpeaking 16:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

As I recall there is a bot running (or it has run in the past at some point) that is adding articles about cities and towns. I don't recall the bot's name but you might want to ask over at Wikipedia:Bots for more info. They would know all the details. I know this doesn't specifically answer your question but I believe it would be a step in the right direction. Hope this helps. Dismas|(talk) 19:39, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
I think that is Rambot. I don't know what info it adds or what sources it uses. DES (talk) 19:44, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Census II

Data exists from the Census on Ohio's townships here and here. Would it be possible to creat a bot to create articles on Ohio townships as was done to create basic county and municipality articles? I've created a number of these township articles by hand, as have SwissCelt and Beirne, and created Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ohio_townships to provide guidance. But there are many townships to go—over a thousand—and I'd appreciate some help. I'd appreciate replies to my talk page. PedanticallySpeaking 16:29, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Chien-Shiung Wu

My question is why was this put on the web, and who maintains the site? (preceding unsigned comment by (talk • contribs) 2005-10-27 19:24:06)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Why was it put on the web? Well because it is of encyclopedic value I guess. This site is maintained by you, me... everybody! If you see an inaccuracy in the article then please be bold and correct it, likewise if it does not maintain a neutral point of view. To learn more about Wikipedia please start at WP:WELCOME and Wikipedia:About. Thanks/wangi 18:37, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Sigmund Freud

how did Sigmund Freud die

Sigmund Freud: After contracting cancer of the mouth, he underwent over 30 operations to treat the disease; his death was by a physician-assisted morphine overdose. wangi 21:02, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Repeated NPOV edits by anon user

I've reverted the edits of an anon user twice now for the Val Kilmer article. I've left a message on the IP's talk page about this. I don't want to violate the 3RR but I'm not sure how to proceed. There's a little bit of good info in the edits but quite a bit of what I see as "Hollywood hype" type editing. So where do I go from here? Can I revert an anon's edits a third time if I've already left a note for them on their talk page (or the closest thing they have to a talk page)? Should I post my reasoning on the Val Kilmer talk page? Where do I go from here? Dismas|(talk) 21:00, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Per WP:3RR "Do not revert any single page in whole or in part more than three times in 24 hours." (my emphasis). So you have one revert in hand, if needed. Although the anon's edits are indeed unacceptably POV, I don't think they really qualify as "simple vandalism", so you shouldn't go beyond that. I've added that page to my watchlist, and it looks as if someone else is helping too. Someone should inform the Kilmer-fan of 3RR, as it only fair he know about it before we threaten to block him on it. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:11, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Should that someone be me or an admin since they'd be the ones doing the blocking?Ah! I see you've already left them a message, thanks for the info! Dismas|(talk) 21:30, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Sure, anyone can leave the message. For newbies, it's only reasonable to be gentle. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:42, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Great! You hit my pet peeve. The anon made repeated POV edits. If they were NPOV, there wouldn't have been a problem. Please take care and don't mixup NPOV and POV. - Mgm|(talk) 21:31, 27 October 2005 (UTC)


Can i get a physical map of Virginia?

In a map shop, yes. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 21:11, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
Finlay, you wanting a drum roll for that one? ;) Anyway, the Virginia article includes a topographical and an atlas map which both show physical features. Probably not exactly what you're after, but you've got to do some leg work yourself! (it's not hard) wangi 21:17, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

Recovering a password?

Hi, I seem to have forgotten my password, and the e-mail recovery feature doesn't seem to be working either. Is there any other way I can recover my account?

  • No, not really, unless you can convince a developer with time on their hands the account belongs to you. Are you sure you've checked the correct email account? Perhaps you should try again later. - Mgm|(talk) 21:34, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I've check all my e-mail accounts (and spam folders) and I don't see anything. This is the third time I've tried, so I guess that leaves talking to an admin. Who should I contact?
  • Admins can't do anything about it. You should try contacting a developer. Developers have direct database access. (see the link) - Mgm|(talk) 04:43, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


How do I make a suggestion?

Try going to the Village pump, and going to the appropriate subpage, and follow the instructions there. Titoxd(?!?) 22:45, 27 October 2005 (UTC)

October 28

Picture help

Can someone take a look at the picture of a greenland paddle I added to Kayak? Is it a record for the thinnest photo?! I'm really not happy with the formatting... Trollderella 01:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Thought about rotating it? -guety is talking english bad 02:18, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I dunno—the vertical format is visually appealing; it makes a nice accent down the side of the article. Unfortunately, the image is too narrow for the caption to work properly. You could rotate it as Guety suggests, but I'd be afraid it would lose its visual punch. Perhaps you could pad the image with a bit more whitespace on the left and right. The current version is about 10:1 height:width; maybe pad it out to 6:1 or so? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 02:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Tracking IP address

Another user has been tracking my IP address from what I've posted on this site, and has been trying to locate me. What should I do?

For starters, get a user name so that your IP is no longer displayed in the history etc, see Wikipedia:Why create an account?. --Commander Keane 04:56, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Is this by any chance a reference to the message you were sent "Please stop vandalizing the article Metroid: Zero Mission, or this IP address may end up being blocked. --Poiuyt Man talk 06:41, 28 October 2005 (UTC)"? Notinasnaid 06:55, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Can't upload SVG file

I really can't upload an SVG file at all; every time I try I get a big red message saying "This file contains HTML or script code that may be erroneously interpreted by a web browser.", even though the SVG file contains no Javascript or weird stuff whatsoever (in fact, it's rather conspicuously plain-jane). The so-called "warning" in fact actually seems to be an error, since it gives me no way to proceed, and then I have to press the back-arrow button about three times to escape the big red message, and at the end of it all I don't end up returning to the file upload form (so any information I typed into the file description box etc. is lost).

None of this helps me understand the what the problem is. AnonMoos 06:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

I don't think it's possible to upload SVG files here (sadly). It seems that the software mistakes XML for HTML here. — Sverdrup 23:46, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Well, I know it can be done on the Commons but they come out as PNG. -- Thorpe talk 23:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I was trying to do it on Wikimedia Commons first, but it doesn't work for me here or there. Here's the file I was trying to upload: User:AnonMoos/SVGuploadtest . Thanks for any help. AnonMoos 02:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
User:Wangi has successfully uploaded Image:Flag of Scotland.svg to the commons, maybe you could ask them about it.

collission at sea Montevideo

I am trying to obtain any information concerning a collision in the Video channel 1972 between the S.S. Royston Grange and the TIen Chee. The name and address of an English language newspaper in Montevideo would be helpful. Thank you

This page is for questions about Wikipedia. For factual questions, please go to Wikipedia:Reference desk. Thanks. --Kewp (t) 12:26, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

GDP world rank in 1970 and 1950

Hello friends, I'm from Argentina and I would like to know if you could possibly tell me what was the position of Argentina in the world rank in terms of GDP (nominal) in 1970 and 1950. If you can´t give me the information, I'll be glad if you tell me where to find it. Thank you very much. Kindly,


  • This is a page for questions regarding Wikipedia itself. Please post your question on the reference desk. - Mgm|(talk) 17:59, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Weird notice about vandalism

About seventeen hours ago I got a message while I was editing, announcing that WP was being vandalized and was in the process of restoring/recovering data. The message seemed to be at the top of all the pages I looked at. I finished up, saved my edits, and logged out. Now I don't see the message, and I can't find any notice that indicates it happened, was fixed, or was stopped.

Was the message itself a form of vandalism, or an actual notice of what was going on? Was it a message to everyone, or just some subset, or just me? Is there a log of such announcements where I can check what the outcome was? I notice I got a similar announcement when I received an incoming welcome message on my talk page (announcing an incoming message, not vandalism) and I don't know what triggers such messages. --Dan Hoey 17:00, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Odd I don't think it was a legit message sitenotice hasn't been edited for days. what page was it on?Geni 17:09, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I was editing Map-coloring games, a page I started a while earlier to cover some redlinks and some undisambiguated usages. But I recall the notice was appearing on other pages, too. I could be wrong, I suppose.--Dan Hoey 18:02, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


How do you make a user page/regular page? Such as User:Essjay/WikiPhilosophy.--Anti-Anonymex2Come to my page! I've gone caliente loco! 17:46, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

You can just make a page: For example User:Anti-Anonymex2/stuff. It appears as a red link at first since you haven't made it yet. But after you've made it, it will be just like a regular page. It's easiest to just put User:Anti-Anonymex2/stuff (like this [[User:Anti-Anonymex2/stuff]]) on your user page, and click on it there, so you will be able to find it again.--Kewp (t) 18:01, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Just enter the name of the page you want to create, and then press go. It will show you a "Create this article" redlink, which you click on, and then, you edit it as if it were a normal page. The same goes for subpages. Titoxd(?!?) 18:03, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


On the article about Guy Fawkes, there is a section called "Gunpower Plot." Under that section, in the first paragraph, there is a line that read "[...] English Islamic extremists [...]". It should read "English Catholic extremists," but when I go into "edit this page" it already reads "Catholic" but will not change to reflect so.

Why not?!?!

This means that vandalism had been commited on this artilce but has already been fixed. You may need to refresh your view of the article, or clear your browser cache, before the display version shows correctly. DES (talk) 18:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

how to get taxonomy info

how do you get the genus,family,order,class,phylum,and kingdom of a lion.

see Lion where all that info is provided. If you were asking how the taxobox is used to display that info, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Tree of Life/taxobox usage new. DES (talk) 19:24, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

needs merging

I'm not sure exactly how to merge, but these two articles are about the same thing, Tulip_Time_Festival and Tulip Festival. I'm not sure which is the source, since the festival takes place in different places. I know in one place, the name is tulip time festival, other cities may use the same name, they may not. I'm kind of new, so I'm not sure what to do. Gflores 19:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Generally one simply suggests such a merge, and then, if people agree (or at least don't object) after a while, copies infor from one articel to the othe, leaving one as a redirect to the other. In this case Tulip Festival has much more content, and seems a more likely search term, so i would think that a proper destination for the merge. I have used the {tl|mergeto} and {{mergefrom}} tags to suggest such a merge. Anotehr tiem you can do the same yourself. DES (talk) 19:30, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

SMS solution

I am looking for the following SMS solution and wanted to know if I can use your service.

A user calls into a predefined phone number. The user is asked to enter option 1-5 Based on the selection user receives a predetermined SMS message to their phone.

How is billing handled? Do u support ALL carrier in the US? TY.

Please tell us who you think we are? There may be some confusing stuff on our web site. Notinasnaid 21:09, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Image licence

I have posted a few photos I took but after re-reading the licencing specs, I must admit I am now more confused then anything. Basicaly, which one is it that could be sumed up as:

"I made it, people can do with it what they want but if someone starts making money off it, I'd like to see some of it too."

There is no approved wikipedia license that says that, or anything at all near it. Nor is preventing commercial reuse allowed. I created {{Limited Use}} to restrict uses to an encyclopedic context, but that has been proposed for deletion. (It is been disccused now at WP:TFD#Limited Use, and in any case that does not suggest that anyoen should pay the copyright holder anything for any use. I'm afrains if you upload an image (or a text) to which you hold copyright, you will have to live with the possibility that soemone will make money off it, and you may not get any of that money. DES (talk) 19:48, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Fair enough. Out of curiousity, what was the reason it was decided not to have any such limited use ? was it a fear of copyright holder removing some of their items further down the road or something else ?--Marc pasquin 20:13, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I think it's related to the whole open source ideal of Wikipedia. Wikipedia can freely be copied, cloned or sold, in whole or in part (subject to acknowlegements). If each of hundreds of thousands picture licenses had to be separately examined, relicensed, etc. the whole ideal could fail. Notinasnaid 21:08, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Strictly speaking it hasn't "been decided" the deletion of that template is being debated. (and one must now examine each image separately in any case, due to the huge number used via "Fair use") The "limited use" tag would not require any reexamination for a direct copy or copy with modifications, it would only require examiantion when using an image in a completely different context -- which is somethign that ought to be done anyway. I think some people are persuing the "open source theory" here farther than is sensible or wise, and farther than is needed by wikipedia's basic purposes and principles. That said, at the moment those views seem to be in the majority here. But anyone is free to enter the debate and express a view. I gave a link to the discussion on this particualr template above. DES (talk) 21:44, 28 October 2005 (UTC)


Is there a hospital in Cheboksary that is called Polyclinics or something like that? I am trying to locate someone there but unable to find it on the internet. Any help is appreciated.

First of all, this page is for questions about Wikipedia and how to use it, the place for factual questions is Wikipedia:Reference desk. Secondly, we would need to know what country/state/province/etc. Cheboksary is in to be able to help you. Dismas|(talk) 21:03, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Plagiarism by another site?

I was doing a search on google and I noticed that this site: [2] appears to have copied the contents of this article without any mention of wikipedia in an attempt to get people to click on the ads that surround the page. I'm not sure what to do about this, so I'm posting it here and hoping a more experienced user can inform the right people. Oh and there seems to be a claim in the bottom left corner that this is their content: “2000-2005” --Canageek 22:00, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

see the forks & mirrors page for a list of many such sites, and reccomended actions, including letters that can be sent to the operators requesting that they comply with the GFDL. DES (talk) 22:06, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Details on procedure for merging articles

Hi, I think the Wikipedia:Merging and moving pages article could use a bit of clarification. It includes info on how to propose a merge, and how to perform a merge, but doesn't really explain when each action is appropriate.

  • Do all merges need to be proposed first?
  • How long should a proposed merge wait for objections to be lodged before the merge is performed?
  • Can anybody perform the merge? Is it appropriate for the person who proposed the merge to perform it?

Thanks! --Red Robot 22:38, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Anyone who feels competant (and willing) can perform a merge. A merge usually requires some kmowledge abouth the subject in order that information is merged smoothly, rahter than simply plumping done redudnant chuncks of text in an article. It also often requires soem judgement on wht to include in the merged version. Sources (and their citations) to specific facts should be preserved. Soem skill at wiki editing and markup is also desireable, but a merge is no (or not much) trickier than any edit of comperable size -- some are larger than others.
No one is ever required to propose a merge you can be bold in editing and a merge is an edit. However whenr you suspect a merge might be contrversial, it is usually better to propose and discuss it first. otherwise edit wars adn revert wars may occur, or at the least bad feelign, and this is not good.
One may also propsoe a merge if one hopes to persuade someone else to do the actual merging.
Once there seems to be pretty celar consensus on performign a merge, ther is no neeed to wait longer. Anyone, includign the original proposer, may do a merge that seems to have consensus. There is no formal standard fo how long to wait or how many people must support a merge. It is usualy a poor idea to just do the merge while active discussuion is still in progress.
I hope that helps. I think merges are often a good idea. DES (talk) 00:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, that does help. Red Robot 00:44, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Oh, dear...

In the light of this exchange, I moved Court citation to Case citation. I'm now wondering whether that was too glib an idea, though, as I've subsequently discovered there are nearly 500 links to Court citation which are (or might be) double redirects - far more than I can fix manually.

Apart from "that'll teach you", are there any suggestions you can offer to help with this problem? AndyJones 22:40, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Don't fret mate, there were only about a dozen double redirects, which I have fixed (assuming that no one else was helping out, which I'm not sure about). Anyway, there will soon be a bot to fix double redirects (see here), so even if there were 500 it wouldn't be a problem.--Commander Keane 07:11, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Brilliant, weight off my mind! Thank you. AndyJones 17:50, 29 October 2005 (UTC)


When Im looking at an article, to the far left i see a list of different languages i can get the article in, but some have orange stars near them. What does that mean?

  • The star means that the version of that article in that language has been made a featured article on that Wikipedia version, which means that they represent some of the best articles in that language available at Wikipedia. --Kwekubo 23:49, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Little Wolf

The photo used for the entry on Little Wolf (Cheyenne Leader)is not correct. Little Wolf was born in 1820 and died in 1904. The caption on this picture reads he was born in 1868. This is a picture of a man called Laban Little Wolf who was born on the Red Cloud Agency which was in Nebraska at that time. Little Wolf is a name that is used a lot. I would like to have the picture deleted. Though I have a bit of knowledge on my ancestry, I have very little on computers. How do I accomplish my goal?

I'll do it. -- 23:40, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Isn't Laban Little Wolf famous enough for their own article, so we can preserve the image in the right context? - Mgm|(talk) 08:19, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Not really, he has the name but not the fame

October 29

Wikipedia Logo font?

What font was the english wikipedia logo text written in? (I don't care about the puzzle symbols, just the "WIKIPEDIA The Free Encyclopedia" text) This is useful information that ought to be included in an article. If it wasn't one I probably have already, but still a free/creative commonsish font, where can I download it? --Nerd42 01:24, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

  • The "Wikipedia" is in Hoefler Text Regular, and the "The Free Encyclopedia" is in Hoefler Text Italic. I don't think it's free though - try Google. --Kwekubo 03:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
  • And if anyone's unsure as to what irony actually means, this is one of the better examples. PhilHibbs | talk 14:47, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. Shame on you all! --Nerd42 19:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

System translation

I got the following question on my talk page. I don't know the answer, but I figure someone here would. Please post your answer to User talk:Kandar. Thanks, Isomorphic 03:27, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

As a sysop in Sundanese Wikipedia (and some other sister projects, which is still "underdeveloped"), would you inform me, if any, how to copy the system messages automatically from one project to another?
FYI, in the Sundanese Wikipedia, I've never translate & sumbit the language.php file, but directly translating every message, one by one, listed in the "special:allmessage" page. kandar 05:17, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Is diagram construction Original?

Is constructing a visual representation of a concept considered original research?

  • No. As long as the information on which the diagram is based is well sourced. We had diagrams on flight patterns of planes and nuclear bombs all of which require research to be accurate. Original research is looking for first hand information. Wikipedia only includes already described knowledge. - Mgm|(talk) 08:24, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
    • An extension. Say you have a diagram of a train tunnel from a journal article. The diagram uses information freely available. Can you make your own version and give your version a public domain license? --Commander Keane 18:12, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
      • I would think so, as long as you don't try to replicate the exact style and visual presentation details of the original diagram (in cases where the nature of the diagram leaves such choices open). But I'm not a lawyer, so don't rely on anything I say. AnonMoos 21:15, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

How to speedily have deleted something

something like Darren Daunt GangofOne 07:47, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

  • You label it {{db|put your reason here}}. In this case you'd write something like "attack page" as the reason. The creator removed the tag before, so if you want to make sure it ends up deleted you can contact an administrator at WP:AN. I took care of the deletion this time. - Mgm|(talk) 08:15, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Major general H.H.Tudor

I would like the person who wrote the article on the above general to contact me if possible about the above General who i have being researching since last Oct, the contributor appears to go under the name CLIODULE. (preceding unsigned comment by (talk • contribs) .)

Cliodule may not look at this page, but you can contact him by posting a message on his talk page. By the way, the above page is at Henry Hugh Tudor. Thelb4 08:36, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Two questions

  1. Who are User:Thorpe and User:EastEnders the great?
  2. How do you change your signature?
Unsigned questions by User:4836.03. --hydnjo talk 14:42, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

< noscript> tags not working

This is probably a server-side problem, but I really can't seem to get < noscript> tags to work. Testing: <noscript>this shouldn't be bold</noscript>

Is this a problem with the software, or my browser not rendering things properly, or something?

  • Did you really want <nowiki>'''this shouldn't be bold'''</nowiki>? Notinasnaid 14:41, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Damn, sorry, I thought it was <noscript>. Thanks! - 14:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
<noscript> tags cause browsers that support and have enabled JavaScript to ignore everything until </noscript>. This tag is normally used for malicious purposes. The same goes for <noframes>. Andy Janata 16:37, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Need help with AfD - something's not working

I have nominated Nefertiti piercing for deletion, and I went through the steps, and it doesn't appear to be coming up properly on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2005 October 29 -- my text appears under "Stig Olai Kapskarmo" (but not at that article's entry). I've nominated an article before and it worked fine, and I can't for the life of me figure out what's wrong. Can anyone please see if they can find the problem? --Qirex 15:41, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Fixed it for you. Are you sure you followed the second step correctly? I re-entered the second part and it worked fine. Dismas|(talk) 15:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Actually, I'm far from sure that I did it right, considering that it messed up, and that it's two in the morning where I am :) I did have the help page right infront of me with the steps but ahwell.
Anyway, thankyou heaps for fixing that Dismas, especially so quick! --Qirex 16:07, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible to access deleted articles without being an administrator?

While researching an article on the porn industry (yeah, I know), I came across a tantalising snippet about the gay porn star Logan Reed but the full article had been deleted. Is it possible for me to access the deleted article without being an administrator, or at least find out who contributed it?

  • You can ask at WP:VFU or ask any admin personally to give you info on a deleted article. - Mgm|(talk) 18:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
  • It's not worth much (which is why it was deleted, I guess) "Logan Reed, was born as Larry Hicks. He now lives in West Hollywood, California and quietly enjoys his friends and boyfriend of many years. Larry is well liked and healthy after giving up his career in adult film sometime before 2004." -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:52, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
  • It was basically deleted because it did not assert the importance or significance of Reed. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 18:55, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Copy right Shrenik

Shrenik is a copy right violation from here. I gave the anon. creator a message and was going to list it as a speedy delete because of copy right. But then I read that only text from commercial websites can be speedy deleted. I can't find the page to list non-comericial copy rights. Please help! Banana04131 17:57, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

  • You can list it on WP:CP and replace the article content with {{copyvio|url=}}. - Mgm|(talk) 18:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Whoops, I did not read your question closely and accidently speedy deleted the article. I have now restored it and it is now listed on WP:CP. Not only is the content from a non-commerical site, but you identified it after the 48-hour creation time limit. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 19:10, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Thanks so much! Banana04131 19:17, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

Correct template to apply to images of US Government Seals

I've noticed a discrepancy among various US goverment agency seals on wikipedia. There appears to be no template (that i can find) that specifically covers these, and there are certainly very many of them.

Several, such as Image:CIA_seal_reg.jpg and Image:NavySeal.png use the Template:Seal Template, but this template (at least in it's current wording) only applies to Local Government seals. Several others use the more generic Public Domain / Government templates, such as Image:FBISeal.png which uses Template:PD-USGov-FBI and Image:Us senate seal.png which uses Template:PD-USGov-Congress. This approach also seems somewhat incorrect, since the seals arent really works of the respective agencys persay, and although i am not entirely sure they are actually copyrighted, i dont think they are quite in the public domain, either, because their use is typically heavily restricted by federal laws.

I've tried to locate an equlivant of Template:Seal for federal seals, but i cannot find one. Is there one? Should there be? Should Template:Seal be modified to apply to federal, state, and local seals? Any help would be much appreciated. --Lanoitarus 20:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I'd suggest bringing this up at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fair use; they're usually good people to query about this sort of thing (the fair use tags are all being rewritten just now, so...). {{Coat of arms}} is probably what you want, or the more general {{Logo}}. {{seal}} does look excessively... precise just now; I don't know why it says local government, but we should probably Do Something About That. Shimgray | talk | 23:11, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Shimgray, ill this question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Fair use instead. --Lanoitarus 23:15, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Links to Google Search

I did a Google search on a page which I created (Michel Dorfman). Rather than finding a link to that page, however, I found a link to my user page! Since I recorded on my user page all the pages I'd created, using wikilinks, I removed the wikilinks and waited a few weeks to check Google again. The link to my user page is still there! Is there any way to take it off Google, other than to erase the list of all the pages on my user page? Yoninah 23:58, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Both the Wikipedia search engine and Google are updated at intervals. That's why you get served with old information. Unless you can find a way to make updating those search indexes not take all the server resources they take, it's impossible to update the indexes more often. - Mgm|(talk) 10:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, but this doesn't quite answer my question. I want to know how to make sure that my user page doesn't end up on Google Search. I would prefer that the article pages be included on Google instead. Yoninah 16:53, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
You can't prevent your user page from ending up on Google, because Google indexes both the article and the user space here. Of course it would be ideal if Google returned the article when you search for it, but that's something Google needs to fix -- it looks like their crawlers haven't indexed it yet. Keep in mind as well that you've licensed your user page under the GFDL by editing it in the first place. — mendel  17:26, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

October 30

Finding Data that you believe is erronous


I recently found some data regarding Religious Distrbution in England on this page, that I sincerely believed to be erronous.

I left a note on the page, to ask if someone could improve this ( see history for that page ). I now realise this wasn't the best way to go about it, and I'm sorry. However it did result in the data being updated and better presented.

Although I still believe a lot of people indicate they belong to a certain reigion in a census becuase they were perhaps christened in a certain church, rather than becuase they actively belong to that particular religious organisation. My 45 years experience of being english and living in (and being widely travelled in ) England tells me this data is still not accurate.

My question is.......

When finding data you believe to be innaccurate, what's the correct procedure for a] reporting this, and just as importantly b] discussing the issue?

Thanks in advance , and sorry for the newbie question. :)


I think what you ought to have done is clicked on the discussion tab, which would take you to Talk:England, and left your note there. That way people could see it without it being in the article itself. Typically you'd leave the note at the bottom, with a new subject header that looked something like == Concern about XYZ == . At the end, you'd put your user name, using four tildes, like this: ~~~~ -- SCZenz 01:36, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Exactly. The talk page of the article in question is the normal place to disccus possible errors in or improvements of the article. If you mention something there and noe one seems to be taking note, you can try to draw added attention at requests for comment or the village pump. DES (talk) 01:41, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Folks! I'll try the Talk route next time. it also looks like there is a quite a bit of Wiki syntax to learn. Worth it though :)
The best way to learn is just to click on "edit" on a page that uses a trick you don't understand, and see what's there (then don't submit). For example, how did I put Wiki syntax straight into my answer above without it having any effect? You can find out. ;) -- SCZenz 01:49, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Why was my question Deleted?


About 1 hour ago, I asked a question here regarding the correct procedure when coming across data that I believe ot be erronous. It was a fairly detailed question, adn I posted it becuase I want to contribute to the Wikipedia, but wish to do it correctly.

My question was serious and contained nothing that anyone would find offensive.

Why would someone delete a question for no apparent reason?



Deleted? It looks like it's right above this section. —HorsePunchKid 01:35, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks - yes It's back now. It re-appeared after i posted this question. the following is what I posted when the Wiki told me someone else - yuu - had changed the page.....

EDIT: Now that IS strange. After psoting this question, I noticed that my original question ( above ) is now showing. I honestly checked through this page about 4 times in case I'd missed it. I also noticed there were over 200 questions when I previoously viewed the page, and now there are aroudd 180 odd.

Anyway, please skip this one, as the question is back - cheers everyone - Paul

( normal service is now resumed  :) )

It might have been cache issue, with the version before your edit still being displayed. Clearign your browsaer cache, or if that fails purging the server cache may help when soemthing seems to disappear. Check then history first to see if soemone reverted or deleted for some reason. DES (talk) 01:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Was Michelle Hurd fired by "Law and Order"?

This page is for questions about Wikipedia and how to use it. Please place factual questions at Wikipedia:Reference desk. Dismas|(talk) 03:25, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Unclear article content

When I read an article and something is unclear, how can I ask the recent or any editor to add information or smooth things up? Detlev Schmidtke

This is a wiki so you can do it yourself. There are edit links at the top of every page and at the top right hand side of the major sections of the articles like the one to the far right of your question here. Or if you don't know enough about the subject to change the article, you may leave a message on the article's discussion page to suggest content that you feel should be added. The discussion pages (also known as talk pages) can be found via the link at the top of every page. Each article has its own talk page. Dismas|(talk) 07:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
  • If you click on the "history" tab, you can see who edited it most recently. Clicking their name will bring you to their userpage. Click "discussion" here and leave a note at the bottom of the page to draw their attention to it. - Mgm|(talk) 10:53, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

How can I make a template?

I can't do it, can you tell me some methods?

Well, basically you just name it Template:Whatever, and then write in what you feel like. But there are pretty complex things to do--why don't you look at the code for a similar template to what you want to make? -- SCZenz 08:31, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

A template is just a table that's saved in the Template: namespace. They usually have fancy borders and other styling and the best way to make one is to find a similar one (as SCZEnz suggested) and modfiy it. You can always ask here for more help, templates are rather tricky in my opinion. --Commander Keane 07:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Templates don't have to contain tables—it's just that most of them do. PhilHibbs | talk 14:50, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Install UTP for ADSL

Mass violations of WP:FICT

I just came across a user creating stub after stub about specific instances (i.e. individual appearences of a certain type of dungeon) in the World of Warcraft computer game. This seems to be clearly contrary to WP:FICT, but it is quite widespread, with a bunch of categories under Category:World of Warcraft instances (or heck, even Category:Warcraft locations. Putting merge notes, or even grouping and redirecting these articles per WP:BOLD and WP:FICT myself would take forever. Is there a good way to deal with this? -- SCZenz 10:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

  • Mentioning all the pages so someone else can deal with them, will probably take just as long. I guess the best thing you can do is either do it yourself or request help at the assitance village pump. - Mgm|(talk) 10:57, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
  • I'm sure there's enough to say about a whole dungeon to make an interesting article, why don't you just leave them alone? Kappa 11:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
    • Um, they're not real? Wikipedia isn't a detailed computer game guide? From what I've seen of how this game works, writing a real article on every dungeon would involve summarizing the entire course of the game. There are a lot of things I've learned to leave alone, lately, but each of these articles is a small part of one computer game, and there are relevant guidelines about article structure for works of fiction. This is not a borderline case. -- SCZenz 11:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
    • And, it's worth noting, I am not suggesting removing one jot of information. WP:FICT is explicit about that too. -- SCZenz 11:23, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Not being a game guide means not telling people how to play the games, it doesn't mean "don't describe the fictional worlds". Dungeons seem to be similar to episodes of a television series. Kappa 11:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
        • I do see your point. However, if these articles remain stubs, it seems perfectly appropriate to merge them based simply on how articles are usually organized. In some cases, the info actually already does appear in a larger article and in the stub. I honestly doubt (from what I've seen of this game) that there really is enough information about each dungeon to bring them out of stub status without creating a game guide, but I suppose we'll wait and see. -- SCZenz 11:39, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
          • If they remain stubs, i agree with your point. However, you may be underestimating how large these "small parts" of the game are. Some of these instance dungeons take hours and are extremely detailed both in storyline and strategy... i could see a potential for some interesting and informative articles, assuming the creator actually expands them. --Lanoitarus 15:15, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

File history

I have noticed that on some images (e.g. Image:New Orleans Fire 2005-09-02.jpg), there is no file history, and the link at the top to file history doesn't work. However, it appears on some other images (e.g. Image:SakuraHealed.png). Why is this? Is it to do with JPGs and PNGs? Thelb4 16:32, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The original upload of Image:New Orleans Fire 2005-09-02.jpg was on the Wikimedia Commons; this wiki imports the picture automatically from there when it is used, so the file history remains on Commons. While Image:SakuraHealed.png has been uploaded to Commons, the original upload was here, so the file history is visible here. — mendel  17:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

How to report vandals?

If someone repeatedly vandalised an article, and starts being rude (and flames you) when you tell them to stop, doesn't that warrant a ban?

Where can I report these kinds of problems?

WP:AIV if it is serious and needs immediate attention, or WP:VIP for not so serious vandals. -Greg Asche (talk) 20:21, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

When some people put the four tildes...

...why do their names (or something after their names) come up in green instead of blue or red?

They have created a custom signature. See Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages#Customizing your signature. -Greg Asche (talk) 20:30, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. gtdp 21:38, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Statistics on page vistitations

Is there any way to get statistics on how many visitors go to a particular Wikipedia page per day, week or other period of time?

                                           -- Ben Best 21:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)
NoGeni 22:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

There used to be hit counters (way back in the olden days) but it put too much strain on the servers. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:27, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Memory Alpha, which uses the same wiki software as Wikipedia, has this hit counter on. For example, see MemoryAlpha:Star Trek. --Perfecto Maple Leaf Forever! 00:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
There's total number of visits here (right at the bottom)--Commander Keane 06:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Sun or the Sun?

If capitalized the word Sun, is it necessary to add "the" in front of the word "Sun"? And what if Moon and Earth? -- Yaohua2000 21:17, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The is required in most cases. Please see Sun, Moon and Earth for examples of how these words are used. -Walter Siegmund 23:02, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

How to leave edit summaries for reverts

Is there a bookmarklet, widget or one-click-tool that reverts vandalism with a note in the form of "rv edits by to last version by David Shear" -- perhaps one that pulls out the usernames from the history? Thanks! --Perfecto Maple Leaf Forever! 23:18, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Only for admins I'm afraid. Non admins can simply type "revert vandalism" no need for all the other stuff. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:24, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

I think there may be a way to do it through monobook.css but I don't know the details.Geni 07:33, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
It can be done with monobook.js. Check out the excellent godmode-light.js by User:Sam_Hocevar. Add the following to your own monobook.js:
 document.write('<SCRIPT SRC=""><\/SCRIPT>');
It is very easy to use, and adds a one click rollback link that checks the history adds the summary you detail above. Much faster for fighting vandalism than editing the last good version and filling in summary boxes by hand. 07:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
hi, could you please give very spesific instructions to somebody quite clueless; to start with: what is & where do I find monobook.js? (btw, I have Mac; I don´t know if that is relevant) Regards, Huldra 14:20, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I don't think the script works with the safrai browser.Geni 14:24, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

October 31

The Article does not appear on a search on Yahoo or Google.

Hello! For the last couple of days I have been working on the article Battle of Pichincha, which I first went on to create, as all there was about it was a red link.

I think the article is more or less ok as it stands now, so I'll be leaving it alone for a couple of days until doing any more edits.

Anyway, I wonder why is it that the article does not appear when a try a Wikipedia search using the word "Pichincha". I've done all the redirects I can think of.

Also, the article is not mentioned when I try a search on Yahoo or Google.

What does it take for a Wikipedia article to appear on a Yahoo or Google search?

Thanks for your help!

--Andres C. 00:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

both wikipedia's internal search and yahoo and google's search only get updated from time to time. The exact amount varies.Geni 01:08, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Ok. Thanks a lot. Andres C. 02:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

what does nn mean in wikipedia terms

what does nn mean in wikipedia terms (preceding unsigned comment by Jdhunt (talkcontribs) 02:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC))

It usually means "Non-notable" in Articles for deletion entries. See the Glossary for more abbreviations. Titoxd(?!?) 02:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Should someone add nn to the WP:G? (I mean Glossary) --hydnjo talk 03:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
It's there, you just need to follow the link to the WP:GD (er, Guide to deletion). Titoxd(?!?) 03:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
It also means Nynorsk, is the nynorsk wikipedia. — Sverdrup 11:18, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

How do I find "firsts" of 1995?

Uploading new versions of images

I have also posted this at village pump (technical) but haven't had a response so I thought I would try here. Hi, I am trying to upload a new version of an image over the top of the earlier one, which I have done many times before. The specific file I am trying to upload over is Image:Yarralumla_IBMap-TEST-MJC.png. I am getting a page that tells me "A file with this name exists already; please go back and upload this file under a new name." and doesn't give me the option to overwrite like I used to get. Is this a problem with the code? --Martyman-(talk) 04:16, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Image refresh privileges for all users were disabled temporarily on all Wikis to fix a problem with our image-rendering server. Maybe this is causing the problem? I'm not sure. Titoxd(?!?) 04:22, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Well it is still happening and another user has mentioned he has the same problem (over at village pump). I guess I should fill out a bug report or something.. --Martyman-(talk) 04:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I've talked with Tim Starling and Brion Vibber, and they told me that it is indeed because of that. That'll be lifted as soon as they finish the transition to a new server. Titoxd(?!?) 05:10, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Question about bias

how do you dispute an article/ page for bias or other criteria (preceding unsigned comment by Jdhunt (talkcontribs) 14:14, 31 October 2005)

Check out Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. The best way to approach was you perceive to be bias in an article is to not approach the matter as a dispute, but as a discussion. List your concerns on the article's talk page and wait for other people interested in the article to get back to you. If no one else seems to be responding, be bold and change the article yourself. You can also use
  • {{NPOV}} - message used to warn of problems
  • {{NPOV-section}} - tags only a single section as disputed
  • {{POV check}} - message used to mark articles that may be biased. ({{bias}} may be used for short)
but I would try the talk page first. Best, --Kewp (t) 05:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

template - test6

the template "test6" says this:


You have been blocked from Wikipedia for repeated vandalism. Please consider providing useful contributions that will help make Wikipedia better. Otherwise, this account could face longer blocks, and action could be taken against the individual who uses this account.

What does it mean by "action could be taken against the individual"? --Ballchef 05:48, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

We could contact their ISP to report their behaviour. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 06:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Would an ISP shut down an account for vandalising a wiki? It's not hacking, and it's not illegal right? --Ballchef 11:09, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
In my view (IANAL) it would fall under the UK Hacking legislation (looks like this article needs tagging for not NPOV!) because it is unauthorised modification. I'd be surprised if that were not true in other countries.
--David Woolley 14:20, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
An ISP might shut down an account, or at least warn the user that his online actions have real-world consequences. Often an ISPs terms of service are significantly more restrictive than the basic 'don't do anything illegal' minimum standard. Depending on the ISP and the type of naughtiness, there may be restrictions regarding defacement of web sites or online harrassment that can come into play. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't think this is as severe as others make it sound. We block vandal accounts, but we ban individuals. A banned individual will get all his/her accounts blocked immediately. As long as we don't take these actions against individuals, you can just start a new (and better ;) wikipedia career with a new account. — Sverdrup 16:01, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Adding CSS classes on pages

Is there any way to add a new CSS class on a page? I would like to add a class so that I may mark my responses on my talk pages in italics, or in blue, or whatever I feel like, something like <div class="self">...</div>. However, if I try placing <style> tags at the top of the page, they just get placed at the top of the output of the page. Is it possible to add my own class, or is this not allowed? (I know how to edit my own monobook.css file, but I want this to appear for everyone who views my talk page.) Thanks! — Knowledge Seeker 05:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Is what has been done at User talk:Vcxlor of any help?--Commander Keane 06:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
You can add classes in your personal CSS, but noone else will see it. If you want others to see it to, you have to use inline styles. — Sverdrup 11:17, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Check out my comments here. Basically, I suggested wrapping your signature in a span with your username as its class. When I see my signature below, it'll have a bright, green background that I can easily spot when skimming discussions, but I don't annoy everyone else with my color preferences. :) It's not quite what you're looking for, but it may help nonetheless. —HorsePunchKid 23:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I went ahead and wrote some instructions, if you're interested. —HorsePunchKid 23:46, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


i don't write spanish, but i know that 'ganchillo' is spanish for 'crochet'. the only link on wikipedia for ganchillo is for 'troll'. is there some way for you to add an alternate definition so that spanish crocheters will have a starting point? thanks! (preceding unsigned message by 2005-10-31 07:30:30 (UTC) - please sign talk articles by appending --~~~~)

Unless ganchillo has that alternative meaning in English, the correct place for such an article is on the Spanish Wikipedia, as es:Ganchillo (doesn't exist at the time of writing). Anyone with sufficient grasp of Spanish can add that article, after checking that the material isn't already covered under another heading. Once the article is created, it can be linked to the crochet article by adding [[es:Ganchillo]] to crochet and [[en:Crochet]] to es:Ganchillo.
If and only if ganchillo does mean crochet in English, then you will need to create a Ganchillo (disambiguation) article and link the Ganchillo article back to that using the appropriate template.
Generally, if you are competent to fix an article, you should fix it yourself, although you should not create foreign language entries in the English Wikipedia.
--David Woolley 12:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
It looks like the existing English Ganchillo entry has been deleted, which probably means it was bogus (vandalism, or not appropriate).
--User:David Woolley 14:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Template creation & design

I'd like to create a template based on this image, to designate the cities that have been recognized with the 100 Best Communities for Young People award, but I'm not quite skillful enough with Wikiscript to do it. Can someone help me out?

Stellertony the Bookcrosser 08:14, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Where is the content for this template?--Commander Keane 10:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Do you mean making a template to add to the articles about each community on this list? I can't see how using the image like that would be permitted by fair use. --Kwekubo 15:28, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Copy right Problem

Sir, please note i have posted some news in wikipedia regarding Ryan Eckert,Veedhi natakam.It was later seen to be deleted owing to copyright problem.I have made the posting from content of my own web site.I also linked it to the corresponding page of my website to the news.I still does not know what was wrong with it.Please let me know the details and about how it can be rectified Dr:Sibi (email address removed).

  • Mention the fact you're the owner on the talk page and refer people to that note in the edit summary. - 14:08, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
  • Also, make sure the web site mentions that it is released under a suitable license, so anyone can reuse the text. Notinasnaid 14:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Whilst including such a notice on the original page would certainly help avoid this sort of problem, it is not necessary to do so as it is quite possible to licence the external web page with a licence that doesn't permit copying and to licence the Wikipedia one with one that does, as long as you own all the copyrights. It's even possible that the original site contains material which cannot be released.
--David Woolley 14:32, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Name for a new article

What should an article on the "Burlington" nuclear bunker be called? PhilHibbs | talk 14:10, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Duncan Campbell's War Plan UK (pp270 on) refers to it either as "the Central Government War HQ" or "HQ Special Sites". "Burlington" seems to have been an internal codename not known outside the MoD until after declassification. Shimgray | talk | 14:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
On further examination, it seems there were two major government bunkers at Corsham - one known to be codenamed "Hawthorn" and probably the CGWHQ - plus a number of ancillary military locations round about, and the general term "HQ Special Sites" may have been an administrative name for the entire complex. I can't determine which one this is offhand, though - an article on Corsham complex might be a good compromise. Shimgray | talk | 14:49, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Aha! We already have an article at Hawthorn, Wiltshire and references at Corsham and Box Tunnel. I really should reread War Plan UK and make those make sense... Shimgray | talk | 14:54, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

settings to email changes on my watchlist?

Is there a way to set up my watchlist to email me when anything changes? Charlie Richmond 15:34, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Not currently, no. Shimgray | talk | 15:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Where's the best place to request this feature? Charlie Richmond 16:56, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
From the defunct Wikipedia:Feature request it seems you could try Wikipedia:MediaZilla. The thing is that most (I'd guess) users have lots of pages on their watchlists so it isn't practical generally. How many articles have you got on there?--Commander Keane 19:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
53 right now. Mediazilla doesn't seem to have any vehicle to submit feature requests Charlie Richmond 19:10, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Feature requests are bugs with priority set to "Enhancement". You'll be happy to know that someone (I can't remember who) recently created a bug report, with priority set to "Enhancement", requesting that there be a "new feature request" feature in MediaZilla. — mendel 21:51, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
So I reported the 'enhanced' bug and got this response: changed:

          What    |Removed                     |Added

            Status|NEW                         |RESOLVED
        Resolution|                            |INVALID

Additional Comments From 2005-10-31 22:34 UTC -------

There is one. (Currently not enabled on Wikipedia.)

-- Configure bugmail:

You are receiving this mail because: -------

You reported the bug, or are watching the reporter.

So I guess this means it has already been done but isn't enabled here Charlie Richmond 22:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Pretty much. A lot of fiddly things that MediaWiki can do aren't enabled on here; the sheer size means that otherwise minimal features would be a large drag on the systems. (Another one, popularly requested, is article page-hit counters - we have the software, but enabling it would not be nice to the database) Shimgray | talk | 00:24, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


With reference to Wikipedia:Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense/The Blue Coat School, Oldham, Could someone please tell me why a lot of this info isn't in the main article (The Blue Coat School, Oldham)? Apart from the weird image in the first paragraph, shouldn't this be in our encyclo? And if the info is non-encyclopaediatic, i wouldn't describe it (with the exception of the wierd image) as being a "Bad Joke" or "Deleted Nonsense" --[[User:4836.03|User:4836.03 Oh yeah! i am cool!]] 16:26, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

  • It seems to have resulted from this discussion. It's quite interesting to see that the BJAODN page and the real page have both been actively edited since that time. AndyJones 21:36, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
    • I think the BJAODN page ought to be reverted to the version put there originally. Editing an alternate version of the article is not what BJAODN is for. Any objections? -- SCZenz 21:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
      • Sounds like a great idea. The edits to the BJAODN one are bizarre. I remember reading it back when it was still kind of funny. I'd put a note on the current article's talk page reminding editors there that there might be stuff to merge from the history of the BJAODN version, and maybe put a header box on the BJAODN one noting that the real article is elsewhere. — mendel 21:48, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
        • Good ideas. AndyJones 23:05, 31 October 2005 (UTC).
          • I have reverted the BJAODN version, put a note at the top reminding people not to edit it, and put the entire edited version from BJAODN into the talk page for the current article for reference. Case closed, I hope. -- SCZenz 08:55, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

USS Butte (AE-27)

I served aboard the Butte from 1985-1987 and the article holder on this site uses an improper identifier (AE-26 instead of AE-27). The USS Surabachi (sp?) was AE-26 so you may want to correct that info. I will try to track down my history material for use on the USS Butte article. Thanks --brownbagcomics

I'm guessing that you're referring to Template:Kilauea class ammunition ship, where indeed the number was wrong. Corrected now. However, attention U.S. Navy buffs: on Current United States Navy ships, we seem to have links for these same ships under different names: USNS Butte (T-AE-27) instead of USS Butte (AE-27).
BTW, the USS Suribachi is AE-21; AE-26 is the USS Kilauea. Lupo 19:23, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


Are anybody else's links showing up as not underlined? A sort of weird plain blue or red text with no underline. Like when you are not logged in sometimes. Is this a new feature, or is my comp just being a little retarded right now? Thanks. --LV (Dark Mark) 20:27, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I'm new here and things may have changed but if you click preferences (at the top of the page) and then skins, there are different settings available which make links look different, including underlined by default. Charlie Richmond 20:42, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Right, but mine is selected as always underlined. It just happened maybe a half-hour ago now. Anyone? --LV (Dark Mark) 20:49, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Okay, now it seems to have righted itself. Maybe I was just connected to a different server that automatically renders links that way. Odd nonetheless. --LV (Dark Mark) 20:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Try clearing your browser cache when this happens. The server seems to screw up the cookie that holds this preference, but a clae cache seems to normally fix the matter. This happens to me fairly regualrly. DES (talk) 21:30, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Font and Special Character Set Display Browser Problem

When browsing math pages, I frequently see the infamous square-box symbol for an undefined/non-displayable character (where a math symbol should be displayed) Is this a problem with the page or my browser? I use both Win98/MSIE 6.0.2800 and XP-SP2 MSIE 6.0.2900.2180 and the problem is consistent, i.e. appears with either browser.

I've checked the IE settings. 'Install on Demand' is enabled.

meta:Help:Special characters talks about UTF-8 and how-to used special chars. but is mostly silent on how to make them display. It does mention 'forcing IE' to use specific fonts.

Wikipedia:Browser_notes doesn't mention much (useful) related to IE and special chars except:

IE cannot handle numeric character references (NCRs) in UTF-8: if a page uses this encoding and NCRs the encoding must be set to User Defined.

Is there something I can do to make my IE smarter or is the problem on the math pages? I'll add links here to the math pages as I find them. - LarryLACa 21:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

It helps if you set your font to Arial Unicode MS, if you have that. However, this gives the problem that a character in italics often touches the next character, if that is not in italics and there is no blank space in between. I recommend using TeX for symbols which do not display in a common font of a common browser like IE, and using a blank space between italics and normal text, so that various fonts work fine.--Patrick 22:21, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback Patrick. The problem is definitely dependent on the proportional font selected for MSIE. Selecting other fonts (Quick Type) makes it much worse. TNR, Arial & Tahoma all seem to work equally well (on my Win98 computer), but are still missing most math chars. I still need to try Arial Unicode MS, but that will take a while to setup. -- LarryLACa 04:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


How do you cite an article using MLA format? Is there a way to find the author's name?

Have a look at Wikipedia:Citing Wikipedia. Shimgray | talk | 22:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

Climate on earth

How has earth's climate changed(if at all)?

Hello, thanks for your question. This page is actually for questions about how Wikipedia works. For factual questions, please see the Wikipedia:Reference desk. You may also want to see the article on Climate change. Good luck! Johntex\talk 23:57, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

November 1

Speedy Deletions for Nonsense


I'm trying to delete several articles I once submitted as a joke to be played on a friend. Unfortunately, I'm having a difficault time trying to delete said articles. The joke is over now, and I don't want this false information broadcasting all over the web. The articles in question are for "Marren," "Brian Marren," "Earl of Kensington," "Enda Marren," "Winston Marren," and "Tourlestraun." Everytime I try to delete them in the way I thought was the proper manner, they reappear, and I usually get a nasty comment from an administraitor or two. Could somebody please help me with this? Thanks.

Hello - thank you for your note. We appreciate efforts to help us cleanup the Wikipedia. I am looking into these articles right now to recommend or take some action to clean them up. Best, Johntex\talk 00:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Report - some very simple Google searching seems to indicate that these articles are not factual. Unfortunately, these articles were created by a different IP address than the person that requested they be deleted. Also, they have been edited by various people since they were created. Therefore, as much as I wish they could be speedied, I don't think they can be. To the creator of these articles, please don't EVER do this again. This is a lot of work to clean up. I'll start the AfD process on the articles. Johntex\talk 00:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
  • New Report - OK, I decided to list Marren, Brian Marren and Winston Marren for Speedy delete. This way, someone else can check my research. Enda Marren has actually survived an AfD before, with a total of 2 keep votes. Talk about exposing the flaws in AfD, perhaps? I dunno, there is an Enda Marren in Dublin, according to Google. I listed that one at AfD. There are no articles for Earl of Kensington or Tourlestraun currently. Johntex\talk 01:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
    • For the record, I checked the official website of the House of Lords. Not only is Brian Marren not the Earl of Kensington, neither is anyone else. DS 02:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
  • According to [3], the title of Earl of Kensington became extinct in 1765. Notinasnaid 08:30, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


Hey everybody. Does anybody know if there's a way to fit an image to its allocated box in an infobox? I'm doing the Disciples II: Dark Prophecy article and I'm trying to insert a logo in the infobox. The picture is dark, so there is a white outline around it. I tried simply making the 'px' value higher in the article editing, but the outline doesn't go away! Is there any way to be really clever and make the picture fit the box exactly? Thanks in advance, Dragonfly888 00:57, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

There's no easy way, really. One option, which I do not recommend would be to edit {{Infobox CVG}} and try to remove the padding with some CSS in the table definition. Don't edit the template unless you're absolutely sure of what you're doing, in any case. Another option, which will be a pain, probably, is to edit your monobook.css and find a way to force there to be no padding. —HorsePunchKid 03:34, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Judging by the fact that I don't have a clue what any of that meant, I think it's fairly safe to say that I shouldn't tamper with it for now. I suppose it's alright as it is. Hmph... Cheers by the way. Dragonfly888 00:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

When to redirect

I'm thinking about moving the redirect at Brendan Frasier to a vote for deletion, but I wanted to check on the policy first. The article sends it to the correct page, Brendan Fraser, and while his name is likely misspelled, I wasn't sure if that means it merits a redirect. It seems that if one was created for every misspelling, there'd be a lot of em around WP. Any advice on whether it's usual policy to create redirects for common (or uncommon) misspellings and pronunciations is welcome. Thanks. Deadsalmon 02:29, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

I believe the general attitude is that "redirects are cheap", though I don't know of a specific Wikipedia guideline to point you to. You might start by reading here. If I had my way, misspellings of article names would be strictly forbidden, but alas... :)HorsePunchKid 03:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Any advice on whether it's usual policy to create redirects for common (or uncommon) misspellings and pronunciations is welcome. It is. -Greg Asche (talk) 03:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
A popular Wikipedia aphorism is "redirects are cheap". In general, it's more trouble to delete a redirect than to leave it in place; we only get rid of them if they are malicious, utterly absurd, or in contravention of a specific Wikipedia policy (a redirect from article space to a user page, for example). It is our usual practice to create redirects of common misspellings; not only does it help poor spellers to find articles, it also helps reduce the number of duplicated articles. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
It's not so much common as essential for names transliterated out of another language - Greek, Chinese, Korean, Japanese certainly, but the worst offenders are historic Russians who may have had their names spelt a dozen different ways in English-language texts. I've been cleaning up the lists of desired biographies recently, and the names we have for some Russians on them looked wildly unlike the articles we already had... Shimgray | talk | 11:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

User page editing

I'm having the craziest time figuring out how to get the Babel and CVU boxes on my user page to align to the right side while allowing text on its left, without appearing above or below it. I attribute this to my lack of knowledge about HTML; in any case, I can't figure out what to do. A quick glance at my page will probably explain better than I can do here. If you can decipher what I'm asking, can somebody let me know how to fix this? Thanks. Deadsalmon 04:27, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Done. The only problem you had is that you hadn't declared the start of the table ({| ) in Wikitable syntax, and you had everything as one row, instead of multiple rows. I moved the table to the top of the page so the text would wrap around it. I hope you like it now. :) Titoxd(?!?) 04:32, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
It's a beaut. Thank ya very much. Deadsalmon 05:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Number of edits

How do I find out the number of edits I have made? I have seen it before, but I do not recall. Mirlin 07:00, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

You can use Kate's Tool to see the number of edits you have. Beware of editcountitis, though. -Nameneko 08:01, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


How do you add someone to a category? Matt Elliott (english footballer) is not on the Leicester players list despite beng one of our greatest ever players.

Is there an article on him? If there's no article, then he can't be in a category. Create the article, and add it to the category by adding [[Category:Leicester City F.C. players]] to the end of the article. Update: I've done this. PhilHibbs | talk

change an article title


I have just saved an article and I think I have not put under the correct heading. the title of the article is: "EFT: Simple & Non-Invasive yet Highly Effective Solutions for Emotional Release" and when making a search on EFT should come up. But it does not. As this is my first time I would be really gretful if you could help me please.

Many thanks

Angela [email removed]

The article is there, but it doesn't look like a Wikipedia article to me, it looks like original source material more suited to Wikisource. Who wrote that text, and do you have permission to publish it under the GFDL? Can you provide any published confirmation of the accuracy or widespread academic acceptance of this information?
Also, I'm not sure how long it takes for an article to be indexed to show up in a search. PhilHibbs | talk
I've tagged this article as {{POV-title}} and {{Advertisement}}. If I'd been around longer I would probably have nominated it for deletion. Wikipedia articles should be written from a neutral point of view and should not be advertisements or written in the style of advertisements.
--David Woolley 12:17, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I may not have nominated it for deletion, but it went through the speedy deletion process at 12:35 UTC! Annotation was "speedy - ad for lifestyle coach".
--David Woolley 14:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Are predictions about the future relevant to Wikipedia?

I refer to The coming American Revolution. This page is a POV article, detailing the reasons why America will soon have a new revolution. I do not consider this a worthwhile source of information on Wikipedia. Is it a candidate for speedy deletion, or does it actually belong here? Mushin 13:26, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

You're certainly right that this article is not appropriate for Wikipedia. As an op-ed piece, it may not have easily fit any speedy delete criteria, so I moved it to User:Dvanhart and left a note explaining why. Friday (talk) 13:42, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice and cleanup. Mushin 13:46, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Just for reference, since the article has already been deleted, Wikipedia has an official policy about articles speculating about the future: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. --Metropolitan90 09:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

When did Marie Antoinette die?

See Marie Antoinette, or enter her name into the search box at the left of your screen. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Deleting Stubs?

There was a stub that I thought should be deleted (World Without Zionism) because the event that is the subject of the stub is not particularly significant; the only reason the event is even known about is because the statements made by one person at the event (Mahmoud Ahmadinejad). But since the statements are already on the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad article and the event is already mentioned there, there would seemingly be no reason to have a stub for the event itself.

I can't figure out what step I should take here? Should I merge the article? Is deletion appropriate? I read the entry on deletion of stubs, but I couldn't figure out what exactly I was supposed to do. I didn't know if it was a "stub template", "stub category" or what. The process seems rather confusing to me so I have no clue which way to go. Thanks for any help. --Jakob Huneycutt 14:33, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

That is a "stub article" or just an article. The template is the tag like {{writer-stub}} that you put into an article to mark it as a stub. The catetegory is the collection of articles so marked, like Cat:writer stubs -- it displays as a page that lists the articles in the category.
you can merge the article to another appropriate artilce if you choose, by simply copying the contnet and incorporating it into your desirted target article, nd converting the stub into a redirect, like this:

#REDIRECT [[Mahmoud Ahmadinejad]]

Or you can just convert the stub to a redirect if all the content is already at the target. Or you can list the stub on WP:AFD to propose truly deleting it, see the detailed instructions on that page. Does that help? DES (talk) 16:31, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I read the WP:AFD page and that's actually the reason why I'm confused. It sounded as if there was different process for stubs from reading that page, as it says: "Also, the only pages that should be listed here are articles and their associated talk pages. Go to the appropriate pages to nominate templates, categories, redirects, stub types, pages in the Wikipedia namespace, user pages, or images and other media, or to report a copyright violation."
I think I get it now, though. Just a bit confused by the attention to stubs at first. So, AfD would apparently be appropriate. Thanks. --Jakob Huneycutt 17:13, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Ah, I see. A stub type consists of a stub template and a corresponding stub category. You can see the list of stub types at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types. Thus if someone thought we shouldn't use {{writer-stub}} anymore (perhaps because it ought to be split into {{author-stub}} and {{poet-stub}}, say) or that a hypothetical {{pimp-stub}} was a bad idea, that discussion doesn't happen on WP:AFD but rather on WP:SFD, because that is not about article content, but about how we categorize and label articles. Whether a particular article that is a stub (and so an example of a stub tub, and a member of a stub category) should be deleted or not is normally discussed on AfD. I know it can be confusing at first. I hope that is helpful? DES (talk) 17:43, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Very helpful. Thanks :) --Jakob Huneycutt 18:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

covering letter and resume

how to write a covering letter and resume

This is a page for how Wikipedia works. Try Wikipedia:Reference desk. -- SCZenz 16:02, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Time in signature

Is it possible to place a reference to the time, like {{CURRENTTIME}}, in a template, apply the template on a page, and freeze the time signature on that page? I am attempting to do this for my signature instead of using the usual --~~~~ or ~~~~~.

When I tried this, the time automatically changed as the real time changed (of course, this is the function of the {{CURRENTTIME}} template).

-- Super-Magician (talkcontribscount) 17:50, 1 November 2005 (UTC)


I think you could do this by using the subst: keyword when you invoke the template. DES (talk) 18:28, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I have tried this, but I'm pretty sure templates are not interpreted in sigs. I thought it'd be nice to do something that would put the time in my sig as [[{{subst:CURRENTYEAR}}-{{subst:CURRENTMONTH}}-{{subst:CURRENTDAY2}}]] {{subst:CURRENTTIME}} so that people would see the date in their preferred format, but the templates are just left as raw text. —HorsePunchKid 19:46, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I suggest you raise this at bugzilla: - I for one would vote for it. Thryduulf 22:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
I have filed a bug. It's the first time I've filed a bug here, so I'd appreciate someone who cares about the issue double checking for any serious errors in the submission. HorsePunchKid 23:41, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Eco-psycholgy in a wilderness . ..

I am a 'Newbie', brand-new to Wiki . . I'd like to contribute and/or edit some of the psychology and psychiatry entries - yet I am lost in your labarynth - where do I begin again ? ~ ~ Matildah-B

In measuring a circle, one begins anywhere. In editign a wiki, one also begins anywhere.
You might start at Psychology or at Cat:Psychology. There is also Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Applied Arts and Sciences#Psychology. Read through any of these, adn when you find an artilce you can improve, be bold!. DES (talk) 20:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Just as a little side note, try not to use "Wiki" as shorthand for Wikipedia; Wikipedia is a wiki, but not all wikis are Wikipedia (for more on this, see meta:Wikipedia is not Wiki.) Welcome to Wikipedia!--Kwekubo 23:27, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

An Officer's Title(s)

Would it be appropriate for an officer to have both titles of CFO and COO?

I think it would be at best unusual at any major corporation. Ina a small buisness, this might easily happen. DES (talk) 22:54, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Removing personal attack from edit summary

An article I helped create has been repeatedly modified by an anonymous poster to include selective, misleading materials that reflect his (negative) POV concerning the person who is the subject of the article. He has now used the edit summary, rather than a talk page, to reveal personal info about me in an attempt to intimidate me from deleting or making edits to his POV materials.

I'd like to know if there's a means of removing the personal information from the edit summary and restricting his comment to my user name. I've read the pages on personal attacks and don't see an answer to this - whether there is a means of accomplishing the edit myself and removing the dispute to the talk page, or whether I must work with an administrator to accomplish this.

Thanks for any help and/or redirection.

Dcs47 21:04, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

The only way to remove edit summeries from the history, as i understand things, is to delte the entire articel and selectively restote all revisions except the one with the nasty edit summery, or to get a developer to make direct changes to the database. Both are significat effort. If it is jsut a matter of baised or uncivil comments, that is not worth addressing. But if he is actually revealing pesonal info in ways that violated your privcy, this may need to be dealt with. I'll look into this a bit further.. DES (talk) 21:39, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
Not that much effort for a short edit history. I've done it for you. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 22:47, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

November 2

passe word for gotten.

Hello I forgot my user name & passe word can you please send it to my E-mail address: schuman49(at)hotmail(dot)com

Thank you.

I'm sorry, we don't have it. What you can do:
  • Try to remember the password (probably won't work :-(
  • Use the forgot your password feature, that sends the password to the email address you registered in your settings.
If you didn't register a mail address that won't work of course, but then there is no way for us to help you. Theoretically, a developer could help you if he/she was convinced it was you account, but in practice none of the developers have time for this or want to do this. So then you're out of luck. — Sverdrup 00:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Of course, you can always simply create a new account, if you wish. Write down the password and/or register an email address this time. DES (talk) 16:58, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

My edits keep getting changed back...any suggestions


I am a frequent user of wikipedia and thought I would take a crack at editing an article I know something about. The article is the one on Tammany Hall. I'm a professor at NYU and also a fellow at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School in urban studies so I know something about the subject.

There are a fair number of innacuracies in the article, and I made some changes to it. They took. However, about five minutes later, I noticed that the changes had all been undone.

I then made those of my changes that I could remember again and again they took. However, the next day, they had disappeared and the old text was back.

Could there be some automatic program doing this or is there perhaps someone watching the pages who changes everything back as soon as he or she sees any changes?

At the end of the day is it just the person who made the last changes who wins or what happens? Please respond to *emailremoved*

  • Click on the "history" link at the top of the page, it lists all previous edits, and hopefully a reason will have been given for the reverts. Try using the talk page to reach a consensus, and it will be helpful if you can cite a source for your changes. Kappa 01:13, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Please take 60 seconds and make yourself an account so we can communicate. There are lots of possible answers to your question and potential responses on your part. You will find many allies trying to encourage those with academic expertise to keep those kinds of articles accurate. alteripse 02:39, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I just looked at the article. It appears our NYU friend used the IP User: (which resolves to Manhattan) to make these changes to Tammany Hall. Then, they were reverted by User:Wikibofh without comment. The NYU person then edited this page from User:, which resolves to Brooklyn, which explains why the same IP doesn't show on this page. I've asked Wikibofh to comment on his or her reverting of the page. --Quasipalm 04:06, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
      • I was doing RC patrol and found it. On the whole it looks like better quality than the normal stuff, but some of the hyperbole seemed to indicate that it was vandalism (and I was in that mode). In particular:
        • Tammany is forever linked with the rise of the Irish in American politics.
        • However, Tammany was consistently able to survive and, indeed, prosper in spite of opposition and continued to dominate New York politics and by extenstion the politics of the country[...]
        • [...]and the society adopted many Native American words and customs, going so far as to call its hall a wigwam.
      • The obvious way to keep these things from happening is to create an account, so that on RC patrol it doesn't show up as something to check. Citing sources would help as well. That being said, it appears the rollback was in error, and I apologize. Wikibofh 14:22, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Orphaned articles

How do I mark an orphaned article as such?SD6-Agent 10:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


Who is the editor of wikipedia?

All of us. You too, if you want to be. Just read the instructions on every page about how to edit. alteripse 13:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Or if you're trying to cite Wikipedia as a source for your paper or project, please see the first line of instructions at the top of this page. Dismas|(talk) 15:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


Dear sir/madam,

Please link to our website <link removed> to help those affected by the devastation that was caused after hurricane Wilma last week.

The more exposure this website will get, the more we can help rebuilding Cancun and help its people, animals, flaura and fauna to survive.

Thank you very much,

Kind regards, Grace Rattue Webmaster

Wikipedia does not generally engage in advertising or promotional activities. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Question re copyediting procedure....

On the following page are listed articles that have been "tagged" for copyediting attention:

I have an extensive background in publishing as an editor and writer, and would like to undertake some of these projects. I've already done some minor editing and article writing on the site, so know all about how to edit a page. However, this is my question:

Once you are finished copyediting an article that has been tagged for attention, how do you let the powers-that-be know that the task has been completed, so that it is then removed from the list of articles needing copyedit? Do you simply remove the copyedit tag at the beginning of the article (i.e., the word "copyedit" surrounded by two curly brackets), or is that some grand poobah's job? Don't want to be presumptuous or step on anyone's toes, being a newbie and all....

Thanks very much. --Victoria 16:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Firstly, once you think that an article no longer needs copyediting, just remove the {{copyedit}} tag.
Secondly, the 'list' that you mentioned is a category - if you put the copyedit tag on the page, it automatically gets listed (see Wikipedia:Categories).
Thirdly, to link to another Wikipedia page, surround what you want to link with '[[' and ']]' (see Wikipedia:Links). Thelb4 17:06, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Just a little detail to add. To link to a category on a page, without putting the page in that category, put a : immediately before Category in the link. It will not show up in the text, like this: Category:Wikipedia articles needing copy edit. 18:07, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Or, perhaps more simply, you can use the "category link template" {{cl}}. This shows up like this: Cat:writers. DES (talk) 18:36, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks all! You have been very helpful. --Victoria 18:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

What do someone has to do to license an Image under GFDL?

I have requested a photographer for permission to use his Image in wikipedia. He is willing to license it under GFDL. But he asked me what does he need to do (procedure) to license the Image under GFDL. --Vyzasatya 16:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

He should send you an email explicitly saying that he releases it under the GNU Free Documentation License for use on Wikipedia and for use by others under wikipedia's GFDL license. You should quote that email on the image page of the picture when you upload it, and be sure the image is tagged with {{GFDL}}. Then forward a copy of the email to PR (at) wikimedia (dot) org, the wikimedia foundation's permissions and releases department, along with a note indicating the file name of the image that the licencse applies to.
Please be sure that the photographer understands that anyoen may use or modify his picture, includign for commercial purposes, without paying any fee to him, provided that his copyright is acknowledged and that the picture is made available for furhter re-use under the same terms. As a practical matter, this almost surely means that the photo involved will have no future commercial value for him. (He may wish to release only a version with limited resolution, for example.)
Note, you might want ot upload to commons rather than to the english wikipedia. that will make sure the image is availabe to wikipedia projects in other languages.
Also be sure that the image page lists the photographer and carreis a proper copyright notice like "Copyright 2004 by John Photoguy, and released under the GFDL". If the photographer has a web site, you could put a link to the site on the image page. DES ;(talk) 17:48, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks DESiegel, that helps me a lot --Vyzasatya 21:25, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Changing a stub into a full article

I have recently updated a stub into what I think should now be a full article: How is this done? Is it something I can do, or do I need to wait for a moderator to change a parameter somewhere? Thanks very kindly. --ccdesan 17:37, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

This is discussed at some length in our page on stubs. Basically, once you think an article is long enough that it should not be labeled as a stub, simply remove the stub tag. Please be sure that it is listed in at least one non-stub category. There is no need for any admin or other person to approve this change -- although if another editor disagrees with you, the change could always be reverted, just as with any edit here on wikipedia. If you aren't sure, you can post a question on the talk page of the articel in question. The classic rule of thumb is that anythign with more than a dozen sentances, or more than a superficial coverage of the subject, is not a stub. But ther is no hard and fast rule on what is and what is not a stub. DES (talk) 17:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I welcomed ccdesan, thanked them for updating the article, and given some additional tips. - Mgm|(talk) 19:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

suggesting question an article should address?

Is there a way to suggest information that should be included in a particular article? For instance, I'd like to suggest that the article on artificial satellites say something about the approximate number of satellites that are in orbit at this time, or even better, the approximate number of each type of satellite. Does each page have a link to a forum where I could request such supplementation? Is so, it's not immediately apparent to a newbie. ````Cliff S. (preceding unsigned comment by (talkcontribs) November 2005 )

Yes it does. At the top of each artilce you will see a tab labeled "discussion" (in the default skin). Clicking on this takes you to the article talk page. This is the forum for discussing what is in that article, and what should be there, how the article can be improved, etc. You can post a request that the articel cover a particular issue there, or post dradt text for other people's reveiw. Howver, remember that there is no requirement that any particualr person respond to your request. People may not feel that your idea is a good one, or no particualr person may feel like doing the work to add the content needed. Remember that all content here is supplied by people like you, unpaid volunteeers. if you are able to do the research to give even part of the answer, that may help spur others to do the rest. Good luck, and heppy editing. DES (talk) 19:15, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
I sould add that if you register for an account, log in, and sign your posts with four tildaa (like this ~~~~) your request may be taken more seriously, as may our other edits. it will also then be easier to communicate with you about the project. DES (talk) 19:19, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Look up!

A while back, I asked a question on this page at #Delete or merge?. I got a partial answer, but when I asked a follow-up question for clarification I didn't get any reply. Would somebody please be so kind as to have a look at the question and either give me an answer or an indication of a better place to ask it? Thanks! —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 19:28, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Hmm... sorry about that. I'm surprised no one saw that the question needed follow-up. Maybe it related to the fact that more questions came in, so no one went back up to the top. You can summon an administrator by posting your request at WP:AN. I would be happy to assist you myself, but I'm a newly created admin and I don't have time to learn how to do a page merge today. If you still need help by this weekend (and I certainly hope you get help by then) drop me a note on my talk page and I'll use your page as my learning experience. Thanks, Johntex\talk 19:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Just to clarify what I think was probably implied by my message - I think you do technically need a page merge to correctly resolve the issue. Johntex\talk 20:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Thank you, Johntex! I'll go put a report on WP:AN and see what results. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 20:25, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
You're welcome. I just discovered there is also WP:RM for requesting page moves. Johntex\talk 20:34, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
WP:RM has pretty specific rules and procedures, and I'm not sure whether the merge-and-delete I'm requesting fits. I've put a request up at WP:AN, though. Thanks for your help. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 21:08, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Private area of your user page?

Is there a way to have a private area of your user page that others don't see? I'd like to have a list of editors whose work I like, a list of ones whose work I don't like, and a list of administrators I can call on, but I don't want anyone else to see that. I know I could keep the list in my own file, but it would be more useful if it was on my user page, but hidden from others. Bubba73 (talk) 19:35, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

  • No, this is not possible. Wikipedia is open in every regard, as is shown by the fact even userpages are editable by anyone. Hiding pages from view doesn't fit Wikipedia's goals. Still, I'm pretty sure listing admins you can call on and the users you like isn't going to cause any problems. If anything, the users you like are going to be feeling happy because you appreciate their work. - Mgm|(talk) 19:44, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes, but I'd also want to list ones I don't like, and I'd rather keep that private. Bubba73 (talk) 21:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Can other users see my watchlist? Bubba73 (talk) 21:27, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Hi Bubba, you could create a subpage, like Bubba73/resources. If you don't link to the resource page from your user page, then no casual user would know the page is there. Of course, if someone goes to the trouble of checking your Recent Contributions or if they are watching Recent Changes, then they can learn about the page by noticing that you have edited it. Therefore, it is semi-hidden, but not secret. Johntex\talk 20:06, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
That will probably be good enough! Can you point me to how to create a subpage? Bubba73 (talk) 21:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Simply type User:Bubba73/PageName into the search bar, and click go (replace PageName with what ever name you choose). You will be taken to the "no such page exixts" screen, one of the choses is "start the page". Click on that choice. Edit and save as on any wikpedia page. Note that anyone really wanting to find this will be able to do so. But no casual user will evenr know it is there unless you tell such a person. Yopu can have several such pages. For example i use User:DESiegel/Test for testing templates and wiki-code I am working on. By the way, other users can not see your watch list, even if they are admins. I suppsoe developers could see it via direct database access, but that is about it. DES (talk) 21:49, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Besides the above (and below) ways that people might find your "secret" subpage, if a user ever clicks on "What links here" from their own userpage, they'd be able to see if they were listed, which could be either a good or a bad thing. A way around that is not to use [[User:name]], instead just typing their name in plain text; that way it won't show up under What links here. You could do that for the list of "not likes" while using regular links for those you do like. Or something. —Brim 00:07, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
It isn't necessary to check someone's contributions to find their subpages. One need only query special:allpages, producing a search which shows all pages in the user space beginning with a certain name. Here's the one beginning at Bubba73. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
There's a much easier way to see a page's subpages: Special:Prefixindex. — mendel # 03:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
The Watchlist is invisible to other users.--Commander Keane 06:50, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
To avoid others connecting the pages to you, you could use sock puppets and put the material in their subpages. Also, you might be able to find an actually different user who would be agreeable to "hosting" your pages. In the same vein, User:Broken is host to a number of other users' pages, probably without the knowledge of anyone involved (until now). ᓛᖁ♀ 07:12, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Error in Oreopithecus

This passage contains an error and is found under Oreopithecus.

"The Swamp Ape (Oreopithecus bambolii) is a prehistoric primate species from the Miocene epoch whose fossils have been found in Italy (Tuscany and Sardinia) and in East Africa.

Their habitat appears to have been swampy, and not savanna or forest. The fossils are sufficient to indicate that there was a lumbar curve, implying some adaptation to upright walking, in distinction to otherwise similar species known from the same period. Since the fossils have been dated to about 8 million years ago, this represents an unusually early appearance of upright posture, lending itself to the aquatic ape theory of human bipedalism, especially in conjunction with other evidence of a possible earlier date for the evolution of hominids, such as the six to seven million year old, very human-looking Toumai skull."

An early time of appearance of bipedalism in no way supports the aquatic ape theory. Time of origin of bipedalism may well be fifteen million years ago during the miocene ape radiation. The bipedal mode of walking is fifty percent more efficient than quadrupedal ape locomotion. Association with water in fossils does not assure those animals were swimmers. Many pteradactyls were found preserved in sediments!

This passage contains an error and is found under Oreopithecus.

"The Swamp Ape (Oreopithecus bambolii) is a prehistoric primate species from the Miocene epoch whose fossils have been found in Italy (Tuscany and Sardinia) and in East Africa.

Their habitat appears to have been swampy, and not savanna or forest. The fossils are sufficient to indicate that there was a lumbar curve, implying some adaptation to upright walking, in distinction to otherwise similar species known from the same period. Since the fossils have been dated to about 8 million years ago, this represents an unusually early appearance of upright posture, lending itself to the aquatic ape theory of human bipedalism, especially in conjunction with other evidence of a possible earlier date for the evolution of hominids, such as the six to seven million year old, very human-looking Toumai skull."

An early time of appearance of bipedalism in no way supports the aquatic ape theory. Time of origin of bipedalism may well be fifteen million years ago during the miocene ape radiation. The bipedal mode of walking is fifty percent more efficient than quadrupedal ape locomotion. Association with water in fossils does not assure those animals were swimmers. Many pteradactyls were found preserved in sediments!

You would do better to point this out on Talk:Oreopithecus. That is where problems with the article should normaly be discussed. DES (talk) 23:17, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

November 3

Finding my uploaded image


I've spent about half an hour looking through 'help' and 'FAQ' to no avail. I used the upload tool to upload one of my photos and can't find or insert the image. I think the file name was changed during the process. Could you please point me in the right direction?

Many thanksTatty 00:36, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

You can get a list of all files you've uploaded by going to Special:Log/upload and putting in your username (or anyone else's, for that matter). Your image seems to be Image:Fish, chips & mushy peas.JPG. Incidentally, there's no source listed - if you took the photo personally, could you note that on the image? Clicking "edit this page" on the image page lets you edit the descriptive text attatched to it. Any questions, feel free to chase me. Shimgray | talk | 00:47, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Creating a page

How do I create a new page on Wikipedia?


Greetings to all...

I have a few, possibly redundant, questions; I need to ask, since I believe in this project and want to add the 'very best' to what you have all worked so hard on.

I have a problem with the 'fluid' nature of this project: Q. If there is a 'fact' known by any single person(s), and that fact comes into conflict with some 'existing' position or perception and consequently this 'fact' (i.e. a fact that is personally known or experienced which adds to the 'flavor' and 'integrity' of an article) is changed to accomodate the 'latest' edit, how is it possible to maintain the integrity and truthfullness of the article or veracity of any or all research? If the above question is considered, how then can any definitive conclusion be arrived at?

Q. If a judicial account of preperatory research establishes a 'fact' as seen by the researcher, and the facts prsented are irrefutable, is there a way to 'lock in' this position and have it accepted as 'FACT' for all viewers? If the above cannot be done, how then is 'our' encyclopedia to be considered difinitive...that is to say, a source which is impecable, and then becomes the THE SOURCE for knowledge and factum?

If someone makes a position clear regarding an individual (either living or dead)or postulates a schedule of events (i.e. timeline) or other elements concerning the veracity of their comments, and it is not then edited for veracity...and then edited again, incorrectly,how then is the truth of the matter to be resolved?

I hope I have not over-stated this issue...but I think you will get the drift...

Thanks for the opportunity...

--Keltic 03:01, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

See Why Wikipedia is so great, Why Wikipedia is not so great, Replies to common objections, Critical views of Wikipedia, and WikiWatch. Wikipedia works mainly by assuming editors will be reasonable and by using majority voting (or, rarely, consensus decision making) to decide which positions are correct. This works fairly well surprisingly often, and very well in articles on uncontroversial topics. However, it isn't perfect; systemic biases shared by the primary editors of a page can compromise neutral point of view, and unreasonable monomaniacs can force articles to promote fringe viewpoints simply because nobody else has the energy to compete with them.
Articles that become contentious can be protected to prevent further editing, but this is only used as a temporary measure. Protection is usually unconstructive; for example, a protected page will often be considered by someone to be the wrong version, in need of correction. Citing sources is the most effective way to demonstrate the correctness of an article.
Nonetheless, regardless of its flaws, Wikipedia is currently the largest encyclopedia in existence, and will at least be seen as definitive due to its popularity (its Alexa rank is 41) and its large number of mirrors, which ensure that its content is widely disseminated. ᓛᖁ♀ 08:09, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


Hi, I have been trying to check out the quotes on the wikiquote site, but cannot see any. The site contains the names of all the people who's quotes are listed, but when I click on the person's name, the search engine takes me back to the wikipedia description of that person, and not to his quotes. Can you please help me? Thanks.

  • Which Wikiquote page are you looking at? - Mgm|(talk) 05:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Removing Cleanup Tag

My article was tagged as needing cleanup (rightfully so, it was posted before it was finished), and now I believe it is up to an acceptable standard how do I either remove the cleanup tag or request that it be removed?

Anyone (including you) can remove the tag when they feel the page is acceptable.--Commander Keane 06:42, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


Hi. How do I change my signature so that an en-dash appears before my nickname? Right now, the four tildes produce:

Matt 07:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I would like the result to be:

Matt 07:45, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


  • You change that in your preferences (top right of the screen in the standard skin). Parts of your sig are automatically added so, you'll need to put the code in the box and click "raw signature". - 08:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

about united kingdom

1. how are the unique policemen of London called?

2. who is the major trade partner of the UK for exports and imports?

For factual questions, please see the reference desk. This help desk is for questions relating to Wikipedia and how to use it. Dismas|(talk) 13:46, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Wasn't logged in when I created first article

I was working on my first article (Post anesthesia care unit), left my computer for a while, came back, and finished it. Unfortunately, my computer managed to log me out without noticing, so when I created the article it wasn't connected to me. Is there any way to remedy this? If not, no worries, it's about the information anyway, but I was just excited to have my first article. Thanks! Natalya 12:31, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Sadly no.Geni 12:56, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Changing attribution for an edit used to be used for this, however it has a notice that this service has been suspended. You may still add your request, but it may never be implemented. --Quasipalm 14:33, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


Is it possible to put a category in your namespace? I want a category for articles in my user space but User:RHowarth deleted it. I am User:4836.03.

Article catigories should not include pages in the user namespace.Geni 12:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


Many articles about Bionicle related topics dont sort out the difference between fact and fiction. I was going to fix it myself but I didn't realise how widespread the problems were. Examples include: Metru Nui Mata Nui (Island) Kanohi But this is true of most articles in Category:Bionicle.

Thanks for bringing this up. We have a template that will flag these articles for review. Add {{fiction}} to the top of the article. If you don't have time to fix it yourself, this will flag the article for someone else to clean up. The template looks like this:
This article does not make a clear distinction between fact and fiction.
Please edit it according to the guidelines regarding fiction.
--Quasipalm 14:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Problem with loss of session data

Recently, I have repeatedly run into this error when attempting to save changes to a page:

"Sorry! We could not process your edit due to a loss of session data. Please try again. If it still doesn't work, try logging out and logging back in."

After clicking "Save page" multiple times, the save eventually takes. What is happening? Wiki bug or something on my end? (and it just did it again trying to save this change, and again)--Durin 14:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It's not just you. I've been getting it today too. I just logged out and back in again. Also cleared my cache. Maybe that will fix it...? (edit: Strike that... It happened when I tried to save this.) Dismas|(talk) 14:58, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


lol..all this poeple banned today!

  • 11:24, 3 November 2005, Khaosworks blocked (expires 11:24, 10 November 2005) (contribs) (persistent vandal of Lee Kuan Yew) why does a fool wanna vandal this?
  • 03:30, 3 November 2005, Golbez blocked (expires 03:30, 5 November 2005) (contribs) (vandal Witch craft) lol satan

i can't go on:D will you banned me for this?:D are telling me all this fools are banned today?>x<ino 14:16, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

How do I wikify an article

I checked on an article I wrote about Kaskaskia Baptist Association and it said it needed to be wikified. I am not sure how that is done.


That means to put in proper wiki code, and in particular, to link terms that could lead to other articles. For example you might replace "Baptist" with "[[Baptist]]" which will show up as Baptist. Links to an article on the city or locality where the church is located, adn to articels about significant concepts mentioned are probably good ideas. DES (talk) 15:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Adding a Category is also a good idea, and maybe a stub notice.--Commander Keane 16:18, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Southern Baptist would be more appropriate here than Baptist. Conversely, if the intended meaning was not 'a member of the Southern Baptist Convention' some work will be needed to disambiguate the concepts, even if you don't link.
--David Woolley 19:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

How many pages is Wikipedia?

There was an article somewhere that Wikipedia may be printed one day. How many pages would Wikipedia be printed out?

What is the size in relationship to the Encyclopeadia Brittanica?

If someone is able to answer this, please also put the answer into the FAQ. I can't believe this question either has not come up or is not easy to find in the FAQ.

I've gotten that compressed earlier this year there is a dump that is nearly 17 gigabytes. How big is it uncompressed?

I'm actually most curious about a comparison between Wikipedia and other encyclopedias such as MS Encarta, World Book Encyclopedia and Britannica.

The Main page of the Wikipedia tells you how many articles there are right up at the top. Something like 800,000 or so. Also see this recent news article about a print version: [4] Hope that answers some of your questions. Dismas|(talk) 16:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
It's very hard to say - it would depend a lot on the form of the printing. However, the current Britannica has some 65,000 articles in 32 volumes (a fairly standard size for a large encylopedia) - we nominally have just over 800,000 articles, which would suggest about 400 volumes. But a lot of our articles are remarkably short - just a few lines - so it'd probably be less than that; I'd estimate around 2-300 volumes.
This is huge, but not impossibly large - some major libraries have runs of several hundred bound volumes in various journals or catalogues (the Library of Congress catalog for 1899-1947 was 200 volumes!). However, what's more likely is that in a print edition it would be cut down to a few dozen volumes, 30-50, removing most of the less useful material. Shimgray | talk | 17:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Also see Wikipedia:Size comparisons (somewhat out of date). ᓛᖁ♀ 17:31, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, there are 812,001 articles. Thelb4 18:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)


Are pictures and/or diagrams allowed to be taken from articles as long as they are sourced properly in other works?


Click on the picture or diagram that you wish to use. This will bring up the image's page and allow you to see how it is licensed. This will help you determine if you may use it for your own purposes. Dismas|(talk) 16:52, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Why didn't my edit show up?

I did an edit and it didn't show up.

There are a couple of reasons. Most commonly, this is a caching issue - your computer or your ISP hasn't realised the page has changed, so hasn't fetched the new one.
However, looking at your contributions, are we talking about the edit to Veganism? If so, it was removed shortly after you added it - two minutes later, in fact, with the edit summary of please try to integrate your contributions into the article itself. I can see why - your edit simply repeated material already in the first two paragraphs. Shimgray | talk | 16:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Sock Puppets

I hope I'm posting in the right place and I apologize if I am not. I believe I have detected a illegitimate sock puppet and I was curious as to what action I should take. The user who I believe is using a sock puppet uses one anonymous account (it appears to be a static IP) as well as a user name. The latter account (which he names "NPOVenforcer") only has about 10 edits on it. Of the 10+ edits, the two major substantative edits to articles were both reverts after other users had reverted material inserted by anonymous account. On talk pages, the annonymous user, as well as the account with the user name, both employ simliar argumentative strategies, labeling everyone that opposes them as being "libelous" or 'trying to enforce their POV'. There's more than that, but I'll spare you the whole case. But basically, I think the user is using the second account to make himself look more neutral and get his way on edits. I was wondering if there was someone I should submit a request to in order to perform an IP trace or anything that would help confirm the user was in fact a sock puppet (he denied that he is a sock puppet when someone assumed the two were the same user after one of his reverts). The similiarities between the two are so thoroughly striking, I just do not see how they could not be the same user. Thank you. --Jakob Huneycutt 17:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

It is not against wikipedia policy to use more than one ID, or edit soemtimes logged in and soemtimes not logged in. It is agaisnt policy to use multiple IDs to vote multiple times in polls, or to try to create the impression of broader support for a position (content or policy) than really exists. If you think that such policies are being violated, report the matter on WP:ANI. Please include links, or better yet diffs, to show exactly what you think the problem is. Please try to be clear but brief there. It is possible to do an IP lookup with a tool known as "checkuser" but such lookups are generally only done where there is a pretty good reason to do them, and only a very few people have access to thsi information. You can see considerable discussion on this matter at the WP:ANI page - it has come up in a rather large discussion recently. DES (talk) 17:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

re: Why didn't my edit show up

It wasn't clear how to respond to you in your last response.

It also isn't clear how to integrate my contributions into the article itself. When I selected edit on the article I wanted to edit, none of that article came up, but instead another article that was much lower on the page came up. The reason I put my information there was that even though the term has what I say in it much further down, most people just glance at the first paragraph and assume that's the only meaning, which it isn't.

Also, what happened to my article on Income Tax?


Why didn't my edit show up? I did an edit and it didn't show up.

There are a couple of reasons. Most commonly, this is a caching issue - your computer or your ISP hasn't realised the page has changed, so hasn't fetched the new one. However, looking at your contributions, are we talking about the edit to Veganism? If so, it was removed shortly after you added it - two minutes later, in fact, with the edit summary of please try to integrate your contributions into the article itself. I can see why - your edit simply repeated material already in the first two paragraphs. Shimgray | talk | 16:49, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

To respond to your initial question you could have just clicked on the "edit" link to the right of your question. Also, the information you placed in the article isn't "much farther down", it's in the second paragraph. If people aren't willing to read even that far then they more than likely don't really want to know/read the article in the first place. Dismas|(talk) 17:13, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
To edit the first section of any page, click "edit" at the top - clicking the edit links in the body of the text will only edit a particular section. Your edits to the page were replicated in the two paragraphs following it - indeed, your second sentence was identical to the first sentence of the latter parapgraph. Summarisation can go too far.
By your "article on Income tax", I take it you mean the vast amount of text dumped into income tax on October 25th. As this is a) partly incomprehensible, b) original research, and c) apparently an advertisment, it was removed. Shimgray | talk | 17:22, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

I keep getting logged out

I log in when I come to Wikipedia, but as I move between editing, discussion and history pages, I find I am repeatedly logged out. What am I doing wrong? Thanks for your assistance. -- 17:15, 3 November 2005 (UTC)-- 17:15, 3 November 2005 (UTC) Okay. This just happened again. I logged in (again) before coming to help desk. When I checked the page preview, I had been logged out. No doubt this is a simple matter to fix, but I can't figure it out. Again, thanks for any help. Nan

This happes to a good many people, including myself, fairly oftn. it seems to be some sort of cookie issue. Try clearing your browser's cache (ctrl+F5 on IE) that soemtimes helps. failing that, try closing all browser windows, deleting all cookies (or at least any onnected with wikipedia or quite recent) and all temporrary internet files. Then log back on, and the problem seems not to happen for a while. This has been reported by many people, and i think the developers are trying to work on it. DES (talk) 18:00, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

More on "why my edit didn't show up"

I don't find your response in the edit section so I can reference what you said exactly.

From recollection, I agree with you now after looking at the Veganism article, that it does indeed say what I wanted, but that what I'm really dealing with are some hard headed people.

Second, please cite for me on the Income Tax information what was incomprehensible, for it wasn't an advertisement, so much as it was citing law. (preceding unsigned comment by (talkcontribs) 12:57, 3 November 2005)

Please try to make your edits in the aprpopriate sections. The edit button for each section is just above the dividing line for that sextion, or its section title, and on the right side of the screen. DES (talk) 18:04, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
When you made this edit you included at the end your email, telephone, and web address, that looks a lot like an advertisement. You also included "This concludes Part I of III of Constitutional Income - We encourage you to check out the Audio Library at <URL>" this looks like a copy vio or an attempt to use a wikipedia articel as a hosting service. Wikipedia articels are not signed, and are not owned by any one contributor. DES (talk) 18:18, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
As to the content of the edit, it states as fact a larege number of veiwws which are far form generally aggreed. it is a statemetn of the position of some people who generally feel that the US Income tax, as presently constituted, is not constitutionally valid. That view is not held by a majority of judges or constitutional scholars in the US, and the IRS dismisses cases that cite it as "frivilous" and "without merit", adn the courts uphold their actions. Thsi may be legally wrong, but it does happen. Therefore including this text as if it were the generally accepted view of the law is PoV, and since it is uncited it may be origianl research as well. There are people who hold such views, adn it would be proper to report on their views and their arguemts. but the views should be properly attributed to those who hold them, and citations provided. It should be made clear that these are currently minority views. DES (talk) 18:18, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the help on the editing issue.

On this matter "This concludes Part I of III of Constitutional Income - We encourage you to check out the Audio Library at <URL>" The URL substitutes for me rewriting several cumbersome paragraphs. Why re-invent the wheel?

2. Just because a fact is not generally agreed to doesn't lessen it. Whether corrupt judges say it's frivolous and without merit or not, it is still in the Constitution, is nowhere in IRC book, income is not defined there, it is defined in Supreme Court decisions, which haven't been overturned, as "corporate profit". There are many court decisions to support this. As you wish, I can add that it is a minority view, but that doesn't remove the facts. Can you please put it back now?

Incomprehensible translates to "I got a headache trying to figure out what it was talking about", in this case. If you want it reinstated, I suggest you take the matter up at the discussion page for that article. Shimgray | talk | 19:03, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

How to get text bold using a template

On my template User:Commander Keane/Disambiguation/Dab nav small I can't get the header text to be bold. I've tried !, ''', font-weight:bold with no success. --Commander Keane 19:10, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

  • I've tweaked it and the header is now bold. But somehow the font turned larger. You could probably add font-size:70% or something to the top line of code if you want to make it smaller. I didn't do it yet, I want to see what you think first. If you want to know how to make a certain template, try copying part of an existing one. I think the one about Forensics, or Cuisine related things like Cheese are a good place to start. - Mgm|(talk) 20:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Indeed that worked, but I do want the font-size to be reduced, and when I add back in "font-size: 80%" as a style, the bolding disappears (to my eyes at least).--Commander Keane 05:14, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation Pages

I have recently added two disambiguation pages for the Battle of Alnwick. One "Battle of Alnwick" works in the search fied but the other, which looks like the example "Battle of Alnwick (Disambiguation)" doesn't.

Please, firstly delete the most appropriate page and, secondly, how do I get the (Disambiguation) into the title but still allow a search to find it?


--ljd 20:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Repeatedly deleted edit

I just created my account, and was reading the "predestination paradox" article, and made an update involving the show Beast Wars. It was soon edited so it was more concise, which was fine, but then it was deleted. I reposted it and it was deleted again. I seemed to think it was relevant and informative, so I'm wondering if there was something wrong with it, or does someone who isn't a mod just have it in for me?

The best place to discuss a dispute over information on a specific article is on the article's talk page. The link at the top of the page that says "discussion" is the one to look for. Also, you could go into the article's history, from the "history" link at the top of the article, to see who took your contribution out. That way you can post a message on that user's talk page (if it was done by a registered user and not an anonymous IP) asking them why they took it out. Dismas|(talk) 21:51, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Should articles on specific song have lyrics?

I'm not sure what the copyright issues / wikipedia policy is on this - should an article about a specific song (e.g. Somebody's Watching Me) have lyrics or not? Thanks!

In my view (IANAL) that would go far beyond copyright fair use, unless the lyrics are out of copyright. My view would be that it would be a copyright violation.
--David Woolley 22:20, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
A short quote from the lyrics, up to a single verse or stanza, or a few key phrases, particualrly if the article comments on the the lyrics, might well be proper under Fair use, but more that that would be dubious under copyright, and probably not apropriate even if the song were in the public domain. (IANAL either.) DES (talk) 22:27, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Better to just link to another site which already has the lyrics WauloK 05:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
I believe there is a policy against linking to pages which violate copyright. User:Zoe|(talk) 06:00, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

what are Special contributions?

i frequently access the history of pages to find the creator and no user name is present, just a number and when you hover the mouse, the little yellow text box says 'special:contributions' where it would normally say the username. how can i find out who put these pages or edits up???? (preceding unsigned article by 2005-11-03 22:01:25 (UTC))

Thag is an IP addrfess, indicating that the person who made the edits was not logged in, and so we have no user ID for him. If you follow the link it will go to a page that lists all edits made via that IP address, which may or may not all have been m,ade by the same person. That is the 'special:contributions' page. DES (talk) 22:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
(After edit conflict.)
Special contributions is the function that you can access from my contributions, at the top of the screen, for yourself.
If, like you did when posting this question, you edit a page without having logged in, the only identity the system has for you is the technical value that allows Wikipedia's computers to find your computer to send the responses. This is called the IP address.
In general you can only identify the ISP from this information, as, for most users, the ISP allocates a different value every time they connect to the internet. For the ISP to identify the user, you will need to supply the time as well, and will almost certainly also have to provide them with a court order! Proxies complicate the matter, and they may not log enough information to allow the originating computer to be located.
I believe that Wikipedia servers log the IP address even when a user is logged in, but this is only feally useful if the user has a fixed or reasonably stable address, and for privacy reasons they won't reveal that information, anyway.
It doesn't make much sense to go to a user page for an IP address, so the history takes you to the contributions page, which contains a history of all the edits associated with that IP address.
--David Woolley 22:55, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
Just to be clear, it's "Special:Contributions". This just means it's a Special: Wikipedia page, like "Special:Whatlinkshere" and "Special:Allpages". The contributions aren't special, it's just a naming thing.--Commander Keane 05:34, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Acceptability of putting sidebar in wrong section to improve appearence

This edit moves a very long sidebar into the preceding section to avoid some awkward white space. In my view that is not a valid edit to make, but I take a very structuralist view in the use of HTML, so I'd thought I would try and get second opinions before moving it back.

I did leave a message on the editor's talk page, over a day ago, but there has been no reply.

My general impression is that Wikipedia also takes a structuralist view, generally trying to suppress custom styling, but it is not structurally pure in HTML terms, in particular tending towards having italics rather than a cite element, so its not certain to me that it isn't consdidered acceptable to compromise correct structure for visual display.

In this case, I think that there is a good case for moving the section with a very long sidebar into an article of its own, but I think that may trigger a revert war (hint: I've also tagged the page {{NPOV}} citing that section as one of the main offenders). The other alternative is to convert the sidebar into a normal sub-section.

--David Woolley 22:08, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Converting the thing into a section or turning the section with the bar into a subarticle are both viable things if it's done right, but I don't have a problem with the sidebar being moved as long as it shows correctly for most browsers and screensizes. It looks fine on this end. - 08:43, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Highlighting word classes in text

This article section uses colour codes to classify words in grammar examples.

This violates a basic usability principle that you should never use colour as the only distinguishing feature. Also the particular colours used are not very distinct when printed monochrome, and, I suspect, there are some colour vision defects in which they will be difficult to distinguish.

The other problem is that it involves embedding HTML markup in the text of the page.

I can't however think of a better way (italic didn't work well, especially with the Chinese characters (Chinese actually uses smaller characters for emphasis)). Any proper way really should use class attributes, so that the coding can be skin dependent.

Is there a better way that I have missed?

--David Woolley 23:08, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

November 4


Hi, We work at a golf club in Minnesota USA, named Somerby, and would like to see if you had information on the community of Somerby. We are looking for names of people, places and things; for example, the name of the local tavern, and the local newspaper. Thanks for your help. Tim Shea

the ratio between the price of a commodity in the current year and the price in a chosen base year is ?

... is discussed at the Reference desk. This page is about help with Wikipedia. — mendel * 02:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Error in page on Alaska

On the page on Alaska, , there is an error in the date of accession. According to the article, it says 'It was admitted on January 3, 1859, '. However is should be 1959, not 1859, and there (as far as I can see), is no way to edit the initial section.


If you click "edit this page" on the tabs right at the top, above the title, you'll be able to edit the entire page not just the individual sections. (It's a bit confusing, I know!). In future, please feel free to correct mistakes like this (though this seems to have been vandalism of the article rather than an error). I've just checked the page, and the date was corrected a few hours ago - you may be viewing an older cached version, so if you reload or refresh the page the problem should vanish. Shimgray | talk | 01:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

wikipedia as homepage

How can I make wikipedia my homepage?

A: Yes! Just set your browser's homepage to
42istheanswer 03:20, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

So (if you use IE or Firefox at least), go to the Main Page. Then...
  • In IE: Tools > Internet Options... > Use Current
  • In Firefox: Tools > Options... > (Click on the general tab on the left) > Use Current pages.
--Commander Keane 05:27, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

wiki to print

i heard a rumor that wikipedia might go to print.

  • The trees of the world say "no"! Seriously, who, apart from a few libraries, would spend tens of thousands of dollars to buy hundreds of volumes that will be out of date long before they get it...? Notinasnaid 09:07, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
    Those can't access wikipedia in any other form? — Sverdrup 11:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Try WP:1.0 and related pages for discussion of static versions like print or CD. Kappa 16:42, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Setting table cell style values for the whole table

I'm working on simple square grid to demonstrate problems for Sudoku. This requires setting the border style to solid. The only way I see to do this is with style parameters for each cell. This is going to be very bulky if I have to do it for all 81 cells. Even with templates it's messy.

Is there a way to use CSS table descendant selectors so that all TD's for the table use the style? This technique is used in wikimedia.common.css for info boxes. Is wiki(media) limited to inline style declarations?

I need a CSS rule like <style> table.someclass td {border: solid 3px silver; ...} </style> -- LarryLACa 04:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I was not able to find any information on CSS selectors, so I implemented a solution using templates and style parms for each cell and border element (right/left, top/bottom). For various trivia on table cell border usage see the templates described in Template:Sudoku 9x9 grid.
If anyone finds a way to define CSS rules for a template, please let me know at User_talk:LarryLACa. -- LarryLACa 01:52, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Number of hits

Does Wikipedia keep a log of the number of times a particular article has been accessed?


James J.

This question was asked earlier this week... here it is.--Commander Keane 05:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Multiple missing articles with year suffixes

I want to help fix up some of the missing articles, but there's a lot of articles listed with the same subject name, but a different year suffix.

I started to add REDIRECTIONs to each year article back to the main subject, but then thought I should check if this is the right way to do it.


Article_name_1999 Article_name_2000 Article_name_2001

I was going to redirect all occurrances of these back to the main (existing) article "Article_name".

Is this correct?

Could you give examples? Are you talking about films that may have been released in different years but have the same title? Maybe something like Movie Name (1990 film) and Movie Name (2000 film)? In general, unless these were remakes of the same original book or novel, they would point to different pages for the different films. There may be a disambiguation page that points to all of them though. Dismas|(talk) 13:09, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Commercial Links


i tried to ad an external link but when i went back, it was deleted. what is the rule for including relative commerical links under the external link heading?

thank you. (preceding unsigned article by 2005-11-04 09:53:15 (UTC))

Commercial links are generally avoided, unless the page contains something very useful and relevant to the article which cannot be found on a free source. (See Wikipedia:Spam) - 10:43, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
If you are referring to the Stock footage article, you ought to ask Vilerage, who actually reverted your changes, but my guess is:
  1. There were already enough examples to demonstrate the nature of the concept. (Wikipedia isn't trying to compete with Google Directory and giving examples at all was probably asking for trouble.)
  2. What probably sealed your fate was using the word "Affordable", which looks like commercial hype.
--David Woolley 12:36, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

How can I trust the information?

I sincerely am facinated by your site, but do not know how I am to trust the information that I am gathering from it. How do I know that the information in the articles is true if anyone, even an anonymous user can edit the information at will?

  • See Wikipedia:Replies to common objections. Also, we aim to provide reliable sources as often as possible, so you can check that something's true for yourself. Also, there's numerous Wikipedians with a track record of good work. If one of those did extensive work on an article, you can be pretty sure it's all right. And if all else fails, you can always try the reference desk. - 11:53, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

adding links

I would just like to add a link to a page about Charles Darwin, and I couldn't figure out how. The page is called "Darwin in Warsaw", - and exists in polish and english. kind regards, lene berg, stockholm

The URL you quoted seems to relate to a current event. Wikipedia isn't the place to promote such events. (I also found the site to be over-designed.)
--David Woolley 12:47, 4 November 2005 (UTC)


how do you revert!? and put a mini message why it has been reverse >x<ino 12:22, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Revert. Dismas|(talk) 13:03, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

author of page

This isn't a search engine, to get a specific answer you need to ask a specific question. However, if you are looking for information on how to cite Wikipedia as a source, please see the instructions at the top of this page. Dismas|(talk) 16:47, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup templates

What happened to the boxes around the cleanup templates for tone and verification (and probably others)? Without such a box it's pretty hard to distinguish them from the article itself. Has this change been widely discussed? - Mgm|(talk) 19:28, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Like {{Cleanup}}? It looks fine to me and has not been changed in that way recently. {{Inappropriate tone}} looks fine, too, though its main div had a class added recently. HorsePunchKid 04:19, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Google Earth

Are images taken from Google Earth permitted? If so, what copyright tag does a photo get? Specifically, I'm interested in adding an orthophoto (air/satellite photo) to Dawson Creek, British Columbia and among other towns. --maclean25 20:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Google Earth images are legally complex; different datasets are copyrighted to different people and used under license. However, you can get around the copyright issues relatively easily by taking the image from NASA World Wind, a precursor to Google Earth (though functionally quite similar) - all the image datasets it uses are sourced from the US Government, and thus can be tagged {{PD-USGov-NASA}}. Shimgray | talk | 20:24, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for the quick response. I'd also like to add another question concerning image tags. Can you tell me if I have the correct tag for this official city logo and this flag, keeping in mind that it is for a Canadian city and that the city hall emailed me them personally after I requested them specifically for this page in Wikipedia. --maclean25 20:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
The former is certainly correct, the latter probably so. Flag images are a little dubious - we're still working out what to do with them and how copyright applies, I believe - but that tag is as good as anything we have. Shimgray | talk | 21:12, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
On the former, you might also use {{fairusein}} as your comment basically claims exactly what that tag asserts. DES (talk) 22:54, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
I tried NASA World Wind. Indeed, that is amazing. However, the it has poor quality in my area. If I were to use the Google Earth image, what tag would I use?
{{unknown}} I fear, i.e. your images are likely to be deleted as copyvios, unless you find out which database google obtained that particualr image from and give reasons why it is PD or subject to fair use, or get a GFDL relase. Good luck. DES (talk) 02:18, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. How about this air photo here: Image:Dawson Creek 1996.jpg. It is from this gov mapping place here: Ministry of Energy and Mines. --maclean25 02:46, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
The source of the Google Earth images can be determined through the software, but it gets complicated if more than one source was used. Assuming you're not using any overlays, the area around Dawson Creek is entirely sourced from one supplier, DigitalGlobe. They're a major imagery reseller; the quality of these shots suggests aerial photography and thus likely purchased rather than acquired from USGov satellite sources. So their claim of copyright is probably correct.
Looking at the new image, again we know the source; we know it's copyrighted. Legally, we're in the same situation for both; we know the source and the copyright owner. If you discuss the imagery, and what it indicates, in the article, then you probably have a decent fair-use claim for either of them. Shimgray | talk | 03:05, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
WHilst noting IANAL, I think it would only be fair use to use the imagery if you were discussing the nature of the imagery itself (e.g. the technical limitations of the imagery), rather than the subject itself. When you use copyrighted material for its primary intended use, it is very difficult to claim fair use, as part of fair use is that you are not causing commerical harm (lost advertising revenue) to the source.
The other consideration, when using anything accessed through commercial software is that you need to look at the licence agreement for the software, as often that will impose contractual limitations that prevent you from doing things that would have been allowed by copyright law if you had obtained things without using the software. Web sites also often try to impose such conditions (e.g. I'm unwilling to use some obituaries from the online versions of major British newspapers because they attempt to establish a contractual limitation on the use of the site that goes beyond copyright law in a way that prevents use on Wikipedia). Whether web site "terms of user" establish valid contracts is probably a controversial subject.
--David Woolley 09:47, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for you help. --maclean25 21:27, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

creating a page

how does a person create an article?

Hi-Fi Isolation table

Need some assistance with Wiki table syntax

I am grappling with Wiki's table syntax, and so far it's winning. Any and all interested parties are cordially invited to examine The Table of Annoyance (scroll down a bit). My essential problem is that the "Village Noble" cell should fall immediately below the "Village Elder" cell. However, no combination of mojo I have used thus far (and I have used many mojo-riffic combinations thus far) have worked. If there's anybody who knows how to Make It Work(tm), I'm all ears. Thanks. Extreme Unction 21:43, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Did a tweak and posted to his talk page. - Mgm|(talk) 22:22, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Many thanks. That's the look I was going for. Extreme Unction 22:35, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Update: The table has been tweaked to my satisfaction. MGM's suggestions, unfortunately, were ultimately insufficient for what I hoped to do (though I certainly appreciate his/her sincere efforts on my behalf). Interested parties (and I don't imagine there are many) are cordially invited to my User Page to examine the results. I'm also going to edit the Wiki Table help page to provide examples for this sort of thing. Extreme Unction 11:40, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

New York Stock Exchange

I am an instructor with Central Texas College and I am looking for a video on how the New York Stock Exchange runs. Do you have such a thing?? How much does it cost?

Thank you

Sasisopin Kobayashi

Welcome! 1)No, as far as I know all the content we have is at NYSE 2) Everything here is free under GNU Free Documentation License. Broken S 22:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Trivia sections

Is there a Wikipedia policy that I may have missed that deals with "trivia" sections in biographical articles and such? I haven't found one but thought I'd ask. To me, trivia sections seem like a cop out. Like someone said, "I have this bit of info but was too lazy to think about how to fit it in the flow of the article so I just stuck it onto this ever expanding list of trivia." So is there a policy on trivia sections? Like if they're frowned on but tolerated or if they outright don't belong or what? Thanks, Dismas|(talk) 22:02, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't if it's official, but I hate Trivia sections and all content in them should be deleted or merged into the article. Broken S 22:04, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
  • It really depends on whether the info contained in it is encyclopedic. I like the trivia section in sodium chloride. The info is relevant, and could be merged into the article. Some trivia sections house info which wouldn't have a home otherwise. If discussion reveals you're dealing with the last type of info, I don't have a problem with it being deleted, but er on the side of caution and merge and move, rather than delete. - Mgm|(talk) 22:25, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Of course, you could also move it to talk if you're unsure about whether something is fully deleteable...- Mgm|(talk) 22:57, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Remote editing?

What is "remote editing"? This guy here goes on about it, and I've never heard the term before, nor can I find any reference to it in the help...

I think he just means the ability to edit wikipedia while sitting at home, that is, "remotely". Oh boy!. DES (talk) 22:56, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Lol, he probably thinks he's hacking. - 23:52, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

endnotes printing problem

I have noticed that some articles using your footnote/endnote format come out fine on the screen, but when you print the articles, next to each reference number in the text a bunch of garble is printed as well [for example: (]. Is there any way to overcome this?

Thanks a lot!

Were you using the "Printable version" link (in the toolbox, on the left, under the search bar)?--Commander Keane 05:42, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
That's not a bunch of garble. It looks like you are talking about the full URL for the online sources. - Mgm|(talk) 08:54, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Printing the full URL is deliberate. It allows people to access the web for a reference, even if they only have a printed copy. However, this doesn't happen for footnotes, so I think the subject of this question is wrong; what is actually being observed are short form external links, which do not generate any footnote (unless you tell the browser to print a table of links.
The URL expansion can, probably, be suppressed by using a custom style sheet.
--David Woolley 10:07, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

November 5

Worth Writing

What sort of things are worth making a new article for? Bobguy7 02:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

You might take a look at requested articles for some ideas. Walter Siegmund (talk) 05:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Is there a place to receive technical help?

Hi, I'm running into loads o' trouble with information boxes. I've tried creating an info box for ferry vessels (I would like to create articles for each individual vessel of the Alaska Marine Highway System, but I would like to start once I have an information box template and know what information the template will contain) but I can't seem to make any headway. Is there a place in Wikipedia where I can request for one to be constructed by those more versed than I in info box construction (or technical issues at large)? Jarfingle 05:35, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Here (WP:HD) is a good place to much such queries. Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) is meant for discussion of "technical issues". I find tables and boxes can often be confusing. I used to just find an infobox that is already working and I copy the formating. Broken S 05:43, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

About Rajput edit preference


I don't understand why the content is keep reverting back.

This is Rajput page and as a Rajput I can expect you to think we can do better job to publish rajputs related info here.

If any info is not correct then you can let us know and we can take it out or come back and provide some reference.

If anyone comes and provide proper reference about any info and you take that out then we don't see any problem in that too.

I hope you understand and extend your support to improve our relation with other users instead of messing up everyhting here.

I know it's open source edit website and anyone can come and post anything on any page but when any page is disputed many times then you need to give some preference to right people and ask other to provide references for any kind of modifications, additions or subtractions.

Looking forward for your reply.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Regards, Ajitsinh Solanki

I don't know what the other editors' motivations are for reverting your changes, but the best place to discuss it is the Rajput discussion page. I'm sure if you bring up your concerns there, the other editors will participate in the discussion. HorsePunchKid 06:28, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
In particular, take a look at the message at the top of that discussion page. With many controversial subjects, the current article is a compromise worked out over a long time, and carefully balanced. That doesn't mean it can't be improved! But it means you need to engage in full discussion before any changes, or they are likely to just be reverted instantly. Also, check the article's history for comments about your changes. Another tip for controversial articles: do you think someone reading your words would guess what your own point of view is? If so, then it doesn't belong. Even if writing about one point of view, or another, the author's own voice must be neutral. Notinasnaid 07:38, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

How to 'claim' unsigned contributions?

I'm a new user, and before making an account, I made small edits to some pages I found interesting, which were signed with my IP address. Now that I have a name, how can I add those edits to 'my contributions' (I have an IP that doesn't change, so they can be confirmed to be mine, I think). This also includes a fairly large edit of mine after creating an account that didn't get my name on it because I got logged out without knowing it during the typing. I very much want that one on my list.

Is claiming those edits possible, or should I just let it be? KLSymph 06:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

  • There used to be an option for that, but it requires a lot of work by developers with database access, who really should be working on improving the software. If there's no other edits by that IP you can just link your anonymous edits (especially the diffs on your userpage and tell people you edited using the IP for a while. Sorry, there's no better option. - Mgm|(talk) 09:00, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Urgent help at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship needed

I followed the instructions and created this: Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/JamesMLane,

but when I try to add the link where I am supposed to, I see only this:

"((Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/JamesMLane))" .


Rex071404 09:06, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

You've used round brackets, you should have used curly ones. --David Woolley 09:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Next time, it would be a good idea to ask a user whether they'd like to be nominated before doing so. Occasionally it can safe you a lot of time. - Mgm|(talk) 11:37, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
    • I disagree. I've nominated at least one or two users for adminship, who have been completely shocked at the prospect that anyone in the entire world would think them of worthy of AdministrativePower®, and they all have had complete, or almost complete, support, and become admins. The only user who I nominated for adminship who didn't become one was a user who declined the nomination. JIP | Talk 21:02, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

children's rights

which countries have not accepted the children's rights movement?

  • Please read the instructions at the top of this page. - Mgm|(talk) 11:38, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Unjustified dire warning

I just received a dire warning " : this is the last time we warn you that you vandalized a page, next time we will prevent you from etc, etc..."

I've no idea what this is about !

Is it a bug somewhere ? Is it somebody else using my address to do evil things ?

I find wikipedia very useful, and I rarely change anything on a wikipedia page.

AC (preceding unsigned comment by 2005-11-05 12:27:23 (UTC))

I have seen this happen a few times since I started editing here. For newbies it is extremely disconcerting to have such warnings suddenly leveled at them and the whole process of explaining what has likely happened has fallen to me a couple of times. I presume discussions around the pros and cons of making all potential contributors create a user name with a legitimate email address have already taken place. Right now, only IP addresses are logged for most vandals and of course in most cases this gets reassigned dynamically, thus alienating those who are potentially useful contributors. It also seems to me that anyone who genuinely wants to contribute usefully should have no problem with the registration process and, of course, vandals will be much less likely to damage pages if they know they can be traced and effectively banned. Charlie Richmond 13:15, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
(after two edit conflicts - I've reverted the second one that obfuscated the IP address, as that is a matter or public record on the History page and should have been included in the original signature)
I cannot see any justification for a vandalism claim, however, your IP address was used to make this edit to the hurricane Katrina page in violation of a guideline, commented on the page, about not being a place for large lists of links. It's possible that there was a revert war. It's probable that your are on a dynamic IP address and the Katrina change was made by another user of that address.
There are many other Katrina related contributions from the IP address used by the not-logged-in user that added the warning. They maybe correlated many accesses from Wanadoo. Maybe you are just sharing an interconnect point with the person who kept trying to add the links.
There is a standard piece of text (template) that can be added to the talk page of an IP address that is defnitely dynamically allocated, that makes the warning about this, that already appears at the foot of the page, more specific. As the standard warning indicates, the best solution is to create yourself an account.
There is some possibility, here, that the final warning was put on without giving earlier warnings, which would be abuse in its own right. They appear to be using a static IP address, so there shouldn't be any problem in communicating to them with their talk page, although they won't be able to reliably talk back if you have a dynamic address.
--David Woolley 13:58, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Yeah, but what about my suggestion? ;-) Charlie Richmond 00:05, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Watching pages by default

I just noticed that when using Konqueror, the "Watch this page" button isn't checked by default like it is in Firefox. Is this some sort of bug, or just a consequence of my browser settings? Ojw 13:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

It depends on your user account preferences at Special:Preferences. If you login to the same account with both browsers, or use identical settings, it may be the browser that is the problem. — Sverdrup 15:33, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

info for sellers

hallo i come from Sicily and to be direct, i have a lot kilograms of oranges more then 40.000,00 kg and i will like to send overseas. there is a way to sell those by you? or thre is a way to sell oranges in one of those big chain such as auchian? thanck you

rispectfully Bruno Antonino

Bruno, this is an encyclopedia, not an orange-selling-place. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 14:23, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Robert's Rules of Orders

I'm going to be starting a Business class soon and was looking over the scheduel. I ran accross this heading... Robert's rules of order. What is it? Or should I ask, What are they? Thanks in advance. Lstp

See our article on Robert's Rules of Order. Please note in future that the Help Desk (this page) is for questions about Wikipedia policy and procedure; the best place to ask questions about factual matters is the Wikipedia Reference Desk. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:00, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Installing "hit counter"/"visitor count" for User page?

Is there a way to install a "visitor"/"hit" counter (e.g., "[26,724] people have visited this page since ...") on the User page (given the interactive editing nature, I realize it would be inappropriate—and probably useless—on an article page, but it seems reasonable for the User page...and I haven't seen any policy prohibition against it)? I've tried installing one, but it just shows up as HTML code.
Or is there a special Wiki counter (or even just a way—"Special page"?—to find out how many User page visits there have been). ~Kaimbridge~ 16:38, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Basically no. MediaWiki contains software to run hit counters, but it's turned off globally due to the amount of strain it puts on the servers. I don't believe it can be selectively turned on. As for "installing" one, the software suppresses (for obvious reasons) most attempts to do fancy HTML to call external resources. Shimgray | talk | 16:45, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

This question was asked here on Oct 30. Check it out for additional comments. --hydnjo talk 16:50, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Technical FAQ#Can I add a page hit counter to a Wikipedia page?. I suspect as far as the front end caches are concerned, user pages are just like pages in the main namespace. They could be treated differently, and the software's page counter mechanism could be changed so that it could be enabled per namespace. Both of these changes would be software changes. Feel free to suggest this as a new feature at Wikipedia:Bug report, although without a compelling argument for why this is needed I doubt it would be implemented. -- Rick Block (talk) 16:51, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

How to format long quotes

How do I format multiple paragraphs of direct quotes, like that in Maria Sabina, which includes a poem? Thanks. -- Perfecto Canada 17:48, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

That poem is assuredly copyrighted. It's probably unacceptable to use it here, unless you're planning on doing a detailed analysis of each line. I've commented on the article's Talk page that I plan on deleting it in a few days if I don't get some arguments as to why it should stay. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Where do I find who authored an entry

Into your encyclopedia?

On the top of every page is a history tab that will show you every user that has contributed to that page. If you are looking for this information because you want to cite Wikipedia, you can find out how to do that at Wikipedia:Citing_Wikipedia. Canderson7 17:59, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of I Capuleti e i Montecchi

I have a problem with my entry on I Capuleti e I Montecchi which was deleted by another user who didn't realize I was re-using my own article forom Opera japonica. What can I do? Kleinzach 18:00, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

There doesn't seem to have ever been an article with that title. Are you sure that's its name? When did you create it? User:Zoe|(talk) 22:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I added the title and linked it. It was originally a run-on from the previous article. I had to guess the page title....Found it. It's not deleted only in the process of a copyright violation deletion -- David Woolley 22:29, 6 November 2005 (UTC) re-edit 18:48, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
The copyright violation procedure doesn't seem to have been correctly followed as the article was never listed on the Wikipedia:Copyright_problems. This should have been done by the person raising the issue. --David Woolley 19:12, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Who is RickK?

Who is User:RickK? His talk page has 11,000 edits. Perhaps he deserves an article. -- Perfecto Canada 18:02, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

A former Wikipedia user and administrator especially well-known for his vandal-hunting as the vandal-hunting award in his name shows. I don't remember the details, but there was an incident that prompted him to leave Wikipedia and he hasn't come back since. - Mgm|(talk) 18:29, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2005-06-27/Article_blocking for more information on the incident. Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk | WS 18:40, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
RickK was also somewhat infamous for having very little patience, a tendency to not assume good faith, and a low tolerance for users perceived to be trolls. ᓛᖁ♀ 18:52, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

considered for removal??

Could someone please tell me how my article on farnham kung fu club can be considered to have broken a ny rules in order to be considered for deletion?

This appears to be an arbitrary process in which one has no facility for responding to the alleged problem.

In this particular case, the only 'evidence' I can see cited is that one single person considers that the club 'might not be a NOTABLE kung fu club'... which seems something of a value judgement to pass on a small club that has produced numerous British champions and at least four world title holders in 23 years.

Can anyone enlighten me? Is anyone free to vandalise someone else's posting, just by objecting to it?? (preceding unsigned article by 2005-11-05 20:42:40 (UTC))

Nominating an article for deletion is rarely vandalism (only when there's clearly bad faith involved. If you can provide written sources to back up the article and post it to the deletion discussion page, there's a good chance it might be kept. - Mgm|(talk) 21:14, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
(After collistion.) Please do not start lines with spaces. That is interpreted as being preformatted text.
You can respond to the alleged problem by commenting on the page that is brought up by the link in the notice box and by improving the article so that it it makes it clear why it should be considered notable.
In general small organisations are considered not notable, otherwise every social club would want an entry.
Another test of notability, the presence of multiple, independent, Google hits, also fails. The only hits are from your local (government) council[5].
Here you claim 4 + n famous people, but on the article page, there is only one famous person claimed and they are not famous enough to have their own article. There aren't actually any links at all in your article, but I did search for Gary Turner. If you can find a verifyable quote by a world champion that they owe their success to the club, and cite that quote in the article, you might make a good case for being notable, but as things are, I think the nomination is correct. (There are enough Kung Fu related hits on Google for Gary Turner to possibly justify an entry for him, but none with any mention of Farnham.)
There are currently two votes for deletion, as well as the nomination.
-- David Woolley 21:42, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

How to have numeric lists begin with another number

Is there a way for #entries to begin with a number other than 1? Thanks! -- Perfecto Canada 21:45, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

  • As far as I know the only method is actually writing out the numbers by hand. Why are you trying to do this? - Mgm|(talk) 23:04, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

See Strunk and White. -- Perfecto Canada 23:35, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

You can't do it in wikimarkup, but you can in html:
  1. you need to use
  2. html li tags
  3. and set the first one's value parameter

-- Finlay McWalter | Talk 00:09, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

How to Revert and help with tables

So I'm a relatively new user, and ive been unable to figure out how to revert. For the most part its been no problem, because most of the time what i would revert is simply a one-line vandalism of some kind. That being said, I've also seen cases of page-blanking, in which case i couldnt just edit the one sentence out of the article. how does one actually revert a page?

second, and also as a function of my newness, i know almost nothing about any html or wiki coding (what i do know ive either figured out by mimicing previous edits or through the how to edit a page page). I nominated a list for FLC, and one of the criticisms was that i should make the tables a standarn width (which i agree with, but just dont know how to implicate it.) it seems that a template is used ("prettytable" or something of the sort), and i cant find anywhere where i can specifically adjust the width. in any case, the article is List of NFL champions, and if anyone could help me out thatd be great.

jfg284 23:53, 5 November 2005 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Revert for details, but basically, provided that there have been no legitimate changes since the vandalism, you use the History tab to find the last good version, pretend to edit, but do nothing except add an edit summary explaining the reversion, and save it.
--David Woolley 00:12, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

November 6

What's up with my sig?

Vanitas vanitatum et omnia vanitas! I can't figure out why my sig is rendering differently on different pages. I want to have a Canadian flag there, but I don't want to link an image, so I've got &nbsp;'s with a red background, followed by a "#" in red on a white background, followed by more &nbsp;'s. On my sandbox they render fine, but when I use them on the Reference Desk (like here for instance) and on some other pages, the backgrounds don't render, and I just get a red #. I notice that in the HTML source, the working ones convert the &nbsp; to a &#160;, but the non-working ones convert them to ordinary spaces (" "). What can I do to make that work everywhere? — mendel # 01:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Sigh, even that one showed up correctly in preview, and now that I'm editing the page I see the &nbsp;'s are still there. Grr. — mendel # 01:18, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Hmm... your sig (mendel # ) seems OK at WP:RD/M and now here. --hydnjo talk 01:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Well, that's even stranger. I have a new approach that I think might work -- underscores in the same color as the background instead of &nbsp;'s. Mostly I just need to try it here because here is one place the old one failed consistently. — mendel _ * _ 19:37, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

How to split an article and preserve edit history

I'm trying to split part of an article (cutting) into another article (cutting tool), and I was wondering how to do this while preserving the GFDL history requirements. The Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page article doesn't mention how to handle partial movements. Wikipedia:How to break up a page, which is linked from the FAQ, tells you *when* to break up a page, and the formatting details, but doesn't tell you how to perform the actual break. I'd be happy to help update some of the documentation if someone can let me know how to do this. -- Creidieki 01:28, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Cut and paste. Leave a good note. Worry not about the history requirements. -- Perfecto Canada 02:35, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
My impression, as noted in a long thread here, now archived, is that the de facto Wikipedia licence is not the GFDL, differing particularly in the areas of the History section and the copyright notices, and also in the provision of URLs that provide the complete transparent form and nothing but. That's probably only a problem for anyone trying to import GFDL material from elsewhere, as anyone directly contributing can have no real expectation of seeing copyright notices immediately after the title line (there is no title page requirement), etc. My user page has standard templates that are intended to make it easier to use my contributions if fhe GFDL status ever gets formally challenged.
(Note, I believe that complying with the GFDL rules for opaque copies would make pages unreadable, even in default of cut and paste.)
-- David Woolley 08:38, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Archiving Wikipedia:Help desk

I've noticed that the Wikipedia:Help desk page is very long, and is sometimes archived. I was considering trying to archive the page, but I couldn't find any archival instructions linked. Are any instructions available? --Creidieki 01:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I, too, am wondering what the usual process is (for my own purposes), and I could not find anything specific after quite a bit of searching. My guess is that you move this page to something like Wikipedia:Help desk/Archive 34 (so as to preserve the history), then recreate the page with whatever boilerplate goes at the top. I'm not really willing to do that (and certainly not on this page) without knowing that this is actually the correct way to go about it. HorsePunchKid 06:30, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • No. That would also archive still active questions. The best way to go about it is to cut and paste the text to whatever the next archive is and mention it's archive from the main HD page to show where the history is. Be sure to link the new archive in the list of archives mentioned. - Mgm|(talk) 11:30, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • See also: Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page. Thelb4 14:02, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I can't verify it...

WP:RCP and WP:V helps little regarding this, so I appreciate any advice. I tried to expand Thelovefest but found absolutely nothing about it on the Internet. User:RHaworth reverted the ((nonsense)) tag I placed, so I put the ((dispute)) tag. What should I do - nominate to ((afd))? Thanks! -- Perfecto Canada 02:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

AFD would be the logical next step if you belive it to be false.Geni 04:05, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
It would be a nuisance if it went to AfD and then it was discovered to be legitimate. Try to find an Irish Wikipedian and see if they know anything about it - they will probably have better resources than us.--Commander Keane 04:30, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I've placed a note here.--Commander Keane 04:38, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you CK. You beat me to it. I'm watching that page. -- Perfecto Canada 04:42, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Have you asked RHaworth to provide sources for the article? - Mgm|(talk) 11:32, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
An anon user created it, not RHaworth. Anyway, User:Cormaggio gave us an official site in WP:IWNB. Thanks! Unfortunately, all that remains to do now is to nominate it to ((afd)). -- Perfecto Canada 17:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Combine user accounts?

I did quite a few bits of editing in Wikipedia before I actually getting myself a user account. Those edits are visible in the history section of each article (under my IP address, rather than an account name). I wondered if there was a way to change this so that clicking on the link (my IP adress) would take me to the contributions section of my new user id? Or otherwise to merge the two accounts?

I apologise in advance if this has already been asked, but I wasn't successful in finding anything about it.

No. In theoy it is posible at a database level but are developers are busy doing other things.Geni 04:02, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
(edit conlfict) No need for apologies, but it was asked earlier. Above, here.--Commander Keane 04:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

i founnd stuff on a website that is the exact same on your's

hey, check this out 

the whole page is almost copy paste so plz tell me what this is all about.

Wikipedia licenses all of its content under the GFDL which gives anyone certain rights to reuse articles, as long as they follow certain rules. If NNDB copied their article from here, I think they're required to at least attribute it to Wikipedia in some way. If the Wikipedia article is copied from NNDB, that's a more serious problem, and we'll need to rewrite our article to avoid copyright problems. It's not immediately clear to me who copied whom here. HorsePunchKid 06:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

I have tagged this as a copyvio to initiate further investigation. Please use Talk:Gilbert du Motier, marquis de La Fayette for further discussions. -- Perfecto Canada 07:07, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


Dear editor, I was looking for the Mexican Revolution and history regarding the persecution of Christians and came upon your site.At the top of the Mexican page and I'm assuming others,there is referance to stuff happening in the land 28,000 years ago:

  1. 1.This cannot be proven no more than evolution can.
  2. 2.Carbon dating as well as evolution has been proven wrong.
  3. 3.Stick to the facts please.Do not spread theories of evolution as it is linked to communism.

James ,Missouri email address removed

If you have an issue with the factual accuracy of the page, please bring it up on the talk page for that specific page (just click the "discussion" link near the top). I have removed your email address to prevent spamming. HorsePunchKid 07:33, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • It appears you don't like evolution much, but what you said is not true. Carbon dating may in some cases be somewhat inaccurate, but it certainly hasn't been proven wrong and as for evolution being linked to communism, I don't think there's anything that proves that's true. If you want to bring up issues with the accuracy with an article, be sure to cite sources. - Mgm|(talk) 11:36, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Old U.S. Army Bases.

I was trying to figure out how to get this out to the general WikiCommunity, but, due to my inexperience with the site, was unable to figure out the proper place to ask the question. Maybe this is the place??

Anyway, I'm a 2 time combat vet who served over 12 years with the U.S. Army. At each place I was stationed, I became (volunteer) an unofficial base historian. There is no actual real job as that, but I would simply spend a couple hours a week researching the past history of units on that base, & most usually, the base itself.

After being wounded & discharged, I beame interested in researching ALL defunct U.S. bases that I could locate, or at least ones which are at a fraction of their mission during WWII. Although many bases trace their origins to the late 1800's, I mainly, with some exceptions, pick bases from the WWII/Korea/Vietnam era that have fallen into disuse. Needless to say, after 20-some-odd years, I have gained a large collection of this type material.

Data on these old bases is extremely hard to find sometimes. Try doing a search right here on Wiki for Camp Gruber, Camp Beauregard, & Camp Robinson, & you'll see what I mean. Do you think this would be an appropriate series of articles for Wiki?? I don't want to spend time posting them only to have them deleted for some reason that I wasn't aware of.

Each article would be about a medium-length page, detailing stuff like the following--Name of base, location, when it was in operation, what it's mission was, which units were home there, any notable figures that trained at, or commanded them, etc. It would also include an aerial picture of what the base looks like now, usually from Microsoft TerraServer. Their rules allow sharing of images like this, since the maps & pictures are actually public USGS issue.

It might also include a picture of when the base was in operation, although these are sometimes VERY hard to find, and maybe pictures of anything that's left from ground foundations, markers, etc.

I have been threatening to put this stuff on my own web-site some day, but there's a problem. I'm not that good at maintaining web-sites. I just want to get the info out there, 'cause I know there's some interest in the field. I could supply the info, get each page started as best I could, & then Wiki users with more knowledge of working with Wiki could correct my screw-ups in format whenever they got a chance if they wanted to do that for me.

Give me an honest answer. If it's not something that sounds appropriate, no big deal. If it sounds OK, I'd probaly start in a few days. There would eventually be 3 or 4 dozen, with a new one added every couple weeks after that as I found ones I haven't researched yet.

Thanks in advance.
Welcome! Well you don't need permission. Although it's quite optional, I suggest you spend 30 seconds to create a wikipedia account. Then, Help:Starting_a_new_page is a great guide. I think Camp Gruber and Camp Beauregard would be useful entries. By the way, are you referring to Fort Robinson? -- Perfecto Canada 07:27, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Huumm...I coulda sworn that I WAS logged in when I posted that. No, the Fort Robinson is a completely different place. Guess I'll try a few & see what happens. 22:34, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Franz Weninger

I am searching for relatives of Franz Weninger. Who was a copral Panzereramee Afrika 1943. My Father served in Africa with the third ishlone New Zealand artillary battery. After my father had passed away and cleaning up the estate the family has now come acroos a diary of Franz Weninger. Inside the diary is three photos.To help anybody his first entry in the diary on the 1st of January had a hang over and sleeped with Finy before departing for Vienna on the 3rd of January. In his diary he mentions Finy on two other occasions so i only ashume that he is reffering to the lady in the photograph in his diary. I dearly love to hand this diary back to the descendents of Franz Weininger and the three photgraphs. If anybody out there who can relate to what has been said here please don't hesitate to email us (email removed) Thats my wifes email address.

My full name is Robert McIntosh

  • Please read the instructions at the top of the page. This page is meant for questions regarding Wikipedia. Your question belongs on the reference desk. Also, check back yourself and don't leave an email address. It's going to be picked up by mirror sites and almost certainly results in tons of SPAM for your wife to go through. - Mgm|(talk) 11:24, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Age of Wikipedia Users

How old are the oldest and youngest Wikipedia Users?--Ali K 09:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

From here (a self-included list) the oldest would be CoppBob, born in 1921 and the youngest would be Isabel Santiago, born in 1998. --hydnjo talk 13:08, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Religious and ethnic slurs

After I reprimanded an anonymous user for making a remark that used profanity to attack all members of a religion (and had no other content) on a talk page, he asked me to point him to the Wikipedia policy that prohibits religious slurs. Since it wasn't technically a personal attack, I am not sure what this falls under. Can I get some guidance? -- SCZenz 17:43, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

WP:CIVIL specifically mentions religious slurs. --GraemeL (talk) 17:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I saw that, but it lists them as an example of a personal attack. Obviously, saying "You fucking XYZ" to another user is against policy, but it's not so clear that saying "All XYZ's are worthless and greedy and should die" is, because it's not a personal attack. At the same time, I stand by my reprimand of the user; if the latter example isn't explicitly prohibited by policy, it sure should be. -- SCZenz 21:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
One might say that it is common sense that if User:X is a member of XYZ, and someone says "Alll XYZ's are worthless and greedy and should die", then they have made a statement about all members of XYZ, including User:X. Johntex\talk 23:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I fear logic like that could lead to over-use of WP:NPA through Wikilawyering. On the other hand WP:CIVIL defines civility quite generally, and obviously insulting someone's ethnic or religious group fits under the definition whether it is a personal attack or not. -- SCZenz 01:44, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Even if there is no explicit policy against this, it is not appropriate anyway. WP:NOT a soapbox or a forum for unregulated free speech, so a contentless tirade is inappropriate to begin with; WP:NOT a system of law. We do not need an explicit rule against something that is implicitly unwelcome. (I find it helpful to think of it as a common-law system, still slowly developing out of the feudal period by establishing its first courts, but with a monarch from whom all justice flows; many assume it is more akin to a civil law system...) Shimgray | talk | 16:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
I agree completely. It was difficult to take a stand and say "I speak for Wikipedia when I say religious slurs are unacceptable," when I hadn't encountered the problem before or seen an explicit policy. But, if there's no explicit policy because everyone agrees it's a no-brainer, that's good enough for me. -- SCZenz 16:28, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


I have occasionally seen some pages put 'msg:' before a template (like {{'''msg:'''stub}}). What purpose does this serve? Thelb4 18:38, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

In the olden days of templates you had to explicitly say "msg" in order to tell MediaWiki that you were expanding a template (as opposed to substing one). Later this requirement was removed, and mediaWiki figures out that it's a template from the wikisyntax. Tim write a script that was supposed to find all the cases of msg and remove the msg: bit. If you remove the msg the template should expand just the same. I believe the script left a change entry as "template initialisation script". -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:50, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
I suspect that the reason there are some templates in the msg format still around is that it took a little while for people to stop useing them.Geni 20:36, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

about wikipedia

what is the publication date of wikipedia?

If you're asking because you want to cite Wikipedia as a source, see wikipedia:citing wikipedia. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:45, 6 November 2005 (UTC)


I love this site, but am totally unable to navigate around it. I am relatively clod-like with regard to computers and "chatting" on them. Is there someone out there who can give me a brief description of how to make corrections or additions to articles I have read. I sem to be able to "look up" definitions by simply typing in a word in the search box. But it seems like there is more depth to this. (preceding unsigned comment by (talkcontribs) 15:59, 6 November 2005)

You might find Wikipedia:FAQ useful. If you would like something more specific, just let me know. -- Psy guy (talk) 20:19, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • If you want to make corrections and additions to articles, you can click the "edit"-tab at the top and put them in the edit window, like you did when you asked this question. Wikipedia:How to edit a page might be helpful in describing the wiki markup for easy linking and such. - Mgm|(talk) 20:29, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for pressing edit

I pressed an edit button on your page by accident and received a message telling me that I have violated some copyright law. I am sure you have a log of it somewhere. My deepest apoologies as I did not mean to press it. Sorry for the misunderstaning.

You're suppposed to be able to edit things; that's the way this site works. It's only a copyright violation if what you insert into the site is plagiarized from a copyrighted source and is not covered by fair use rules, and there's no way for the automated software of this site to tell this. I'm not sure what message you're talking about. *Dan T.* 20:43, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Probably {{nothanks-sd}}? Titoxd(?!?) 20:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Maybe he is just referring to the message DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION that appears at the bottom of the edit screen for any page anywhere in the entire Wikipedia? JIP | Talk 20:57, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Editing/page creation

I seem to be having trouble editing the "Skrewdriver" article. There does'nt seem to be any options/links to edit the history/biography of the band. There are also track listings for only one of their many albums, and I was wondering how I could add tracklistings to all the albums listed. And finally Ian stuart (Key member of Skrewdriver) also has many side projects including three albums under his own name (Ian Stuart) But when I search "Ian Stuart" it automatically redirects me to "ian Stuart Donaldson" which is just a short biohraphy about the person... not ythe band. I also would like to know how I can add bands on here (Like his other side projects). Thanks.

If Ian Stewart has a solo career, then that info should go at Ian Stuart Donaldson. Unless you mean that he had another band called "Ian Stewart" in which case you could just create a new article about the band at Ian Stewart (band).
Also, there should be no reason that you can't edit the history section of the article. You can click the "[edit]" button for just that section, or the "edit this page" button at the top for the whole article. If you are talking about the introduction, dometimes people are confused about there being no section edit button. You just have to use the one at the top. Tell me if you need any more help! Dmcdevit·t 01:45, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


From <email address deleted> From aurelio23 While I recognize that Wikipedia is not a newspaper but a glorious idea about knowledge, I wonder if you already have or plan to have a section devoted to opinions, comments, articles or other references? 22:47, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

No, we don't. That doesn't seem at all compatible with our goal of building an encyclopedia. Indeed, there are those who feel our current events sections and its kin aren't relevant to that goal, and occasionally folks suggest we should remove them. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 22:58, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Each article has a talk page, and talk pages welcome opinions and comments, within limits of civility of course. If you mean about articles that are entirely opinions, e.g., essays, then check out the Wikibooks project. Good luck! -- Perfecto Canada 05:23, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


When I was on your site, I saw that the articles could be edited. I thought that was weird, so I clicked on the edit button, and I made a few innappropriate changes. When I realized that everybody could see my changes, I switched it right back. I'm really sorry. I hope no one saw what I wrote. I guess it wasn't that horrible, I just want to apologize.

Being able to edit a website is an unexpected experience, and I think everyone makes their first edit and says to themselves "do they really let me do that?" You can practice editing in our sandbox, where much silliness is permitted. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 23:17, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
And we hope that after some experimentation, you may want to contribute. Many people start contributing to Wikipedia by fixing a simple typo that you might find. Others write short articles on topics they have familiartity with. Let us know if you have any questions. Johntex\talk 23:21, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Your edits were funny! (Yeah now everyone will see what you wrote :-D) I felt exactly as you did when I made my first edit. -- Perfecto Canada 05:00, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

November 7

Article page views, how do you check it?

How do you check an article's # of page views? Thanks, Scifiintel 00:47, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Select Page history and then choose (click on) the version of your choice. From there you can go back or forward one iteration at a time or start over from a different version. --hydnjo talk 01:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

That's number of page edits, I'm wondering about # of page views... anyone know? Scifiintel 01:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

The same question was asked on October 30. The answer was that that the software used to supply page statistics, but it was removed because of performance problems (The servers get somewhere around 5,000 requests per second at peak times). You can see the original answers here. --GraemeL (talk) 01:21, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Technical FAQ#Can I add a page hit counter to a Wikipedia page?. -- Rick Block (talk) 03:40, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

what is a software program that includes tools for editin

A wiki --Ballchef 23:16, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Recommending A Change To An Entry

While reading the article about Starships, I found a link for the SDF-1 from Macross. When I clicked on it, I went to SDF-1 as it relates to the immune system (I think). I do not know where the SDF-1: Macross link should go. How do I find out who to contact regarding fixing this? I can't do it myself since I don't know where it's suppose to go.

Thanks MistWing SilverTail

It's SDF-1 Macross. I found it by searching Google for " SDF-1 Macross". MistWing, can you please correct the wrong link with "[[SDF-1 Macross]]". -- Perfecto Canada 05:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
The change has been made. Thanks for supplying the information. MistWing SilverTail

Previous language translator

Hello :)...I used to have an older version of your google toolbar installed which had a built in language translator for when visiting foreign websites it translated the whole page at once....upon installing your new toolbar I can only find an option for mouse hovering one word at a time there a way to get back the old version with the full translator installed or as a seperate download add on?

Policy on linking to other encyclopedias?

I noticed User:Knowledge4all is going through everything pretty much alphabetically and adding external links to the online Columbia Encyclopedia. I'm not going to go through and check every one, but some spot-checking suggested that the articles from the CE are frequently very inferior to their Wikipedia counterparts. Is there any official policy on this sort of thing? Or a better place for me to ask this question? HorsePunchKid 05:36, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Unless the wikipedia article takes from CE, an article shouldn't link to to it. perhaps he's doing a bit of advertising eh? --Ballchef 23:14, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Ancient history pages on CAT:CSD

Why have various articles on ancient history such as Cholas, Hunas and Indo-Sassanian shown up at CAT:CSD, as candidates for speedy deletion? There's no speedy delete tag on them, and no category link at the bottom. I can't find anything in the edit history that would add them to the category. Is this a MediaWiki bug? JIP | Talk 06:21, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

They're not there anymore, so I don't know... Titoxd(?!?) 23:43, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Juan Francisco de Bodega y Quadra

HI! For lack of any other place to do this (I searched throughout your site!) I wish to submit an addition to your material on the subject individual. Under "places named after" I submit the more recent info as follows:

HMCS Quadra - a Royal Canadian Sea Cadet Summer Training Centre located in Comox British Columbia, Canada. Named for the Spanish explorer Quadra and commissioned in 1956 as a training base in Canada. Still operating as same to this day. reference: More info available at

Regards, D. Yates e-mail removed

  • Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. If you wish to submit new material, simply click the "edit this page" tab at the top of the page or an "[Edit]" link at a section, add the changes you need, and click on Save page. JIP | Talk 09:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Geographical coordinate link doesn't work

18° N 226° E

It says Error:Out of range

Yaohua2000 09:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

No wonder. There are only 180° E on the Earth any sphere, so 226° E is actually out of range. Do you mean 360-226 = 134° W? — Sverdrup 11:39, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
The longitude between 180° W to 180°E is true on the earth, and perhaps be true on the sun and the moon, but it is not true on other planets and moons. Some planets have a longitude range from 0° E to 360° E, so I suggest to modify the geographical coordinate site to allow a much wide longitude range from -360 to +360. See the last paragraph in Timekeeping_on_Mars#Keeping_track_of_time_of_day for details about geographical coordinate used on Mars. — Yaohua2000 12:30, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


All today I have been having difficulties - my computer has been saying "The operation timed out when attempting to connect to". This happens on all browsers with a message of similar meaning. It is only now that stuff is back to normal. Can anyone help? --[[User:4836.03|User:4836.03 Oh yeah! i am cool!]] 12:32, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Whenever something like that happens to me, I usually go to Wikipedia status to see if the problem is on my end or Wikipedia's. It appears, scrolling down to the bottom of the page, that there was some issues with timeouts earlier. Akamad 13:01, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


Bold text

Good morning. A young man want to know if you have movies and other informations in DVD. Thank you.

I am unsure if this is a test edit or not (I added the sub heading, but not the "Bold text" part), but either way, Wikipedia certainly does have information on movies and DVDs, just search what ever movie you are looking for in the seach box. I assume that's what you meant by your question. If you mean: does Wikipedia sell movies/DVDs? The answer is no. Akamad 14:31, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

How do I link from a Wikipedia page to my own private wiki space?

Hi. Our group would like to be able to link back to a Wikipedia page from our own private wiki page. Is that possible? If so, could you explain to us how to do it? Thanks so much. SHH

  • Try Wikipedia:External link. The title of your question says linking to your wiki, the question is about linking from your wiki. Please note that unless it's from your personal userpage it's quite likely linking to a personal wiki from Wikipedia is considered SPAM. Read the link to find out what is considered acceptable. Linking to Wikipedia has no restrictions. - Mgm|(talk) 19:56, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Understanding templates

Good day.

Still being something of a wikinoob, I'm hoping someone might offer some insight. While I've browsed through a great many pages that talk about templates, and have even read through the complete list of templates, there is one concept that I'm still confused on. Namely, templates that are prefixed by 'User_'. As best I can gather, these are templates that are created as a subpage of a user page (if I am using the terminology correctly, "in the user namespace")? How can one search through these templates? For example, I would like to find a userbox template that identifies nationality that I've seen in some people's "babel" box. Any advice is most appreciated.

Kind regards, Shawn 21:02, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

It's actually possible to include any page on Wikipedia in another page as a type of template; the process is called 'transclusion'. To transclude a page from the template namespace, just enclose the page's name in double braces. The following code would transclude (insert) the content of the page Template:Foo.
For pages outside the Template: namespace, you have to include the namespace and a leading colon. If User:Johnsmith created a subpage called Foo which he wanted to transclude, (User:Johnsmith/Foo), he would use

There are more details about how this process works at Wikipedia:Template namespace. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 21:30, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

POV source links

I think there was some discussion somewhere about POV links being used as sources. Can you use a POV website for a source? Does it then make the article POV? Can POV links be deleted? Can someone point me in the direction of this discussion. I have looked around, but with no sucess. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. --LV (Dark Mark) 21:46, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

If a POV link is being used to indicvate what people whith a particualr PoV think or say, then it can be included -- indeed in some cases WP:NPOV requires that cited examples of multiple points of view be included, adn POV links can be a good way to do this. The title and/or placement of the link should indicate that it is going to a PoV site, if the PoV is extreme. But in any case sites outside of wikipedia are not in geenral commited to the NPOV policy, and we can't link to any site, or reference any book, without there being a sizable chance that the work refernced has a specific PoV, often a strong and biased one. DES (talk) 22:14, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
Note that WP:NPOV says, in part: Where we might want to state an opinion, we convert that opinion into a fact by attributing the opinion to someone. So, rather than asserting, "The Beatles were the greatest rock band," we can say, "Most music listeners believe that the Beatles were the greatest rock band of the Sixties," which is a fact verifiable by survey results, or "The Beatles had more Billboard #1 hits than any other rock band," which is also a fact. In the first instance we assert an opinion; in the second and third instances we "convert" that opinion into fact by attributing it to someone. It's important to note this formulation is substantially different from the "some people believe ..." formulation popular in political debates. The reference requires an identifiable and subjectively quantifiable population or, better still, a name. Including a link to a well identified PoV site can be a good way to do that. Note that a PoV site that fails to identify its PoV, and even who is responsible for the site, and that tries to present it's Pov as widely accepted and unquestioned fact, may not be a good site to link to unless the link clearly identifies the person or group responsible fo the site, adn perhaps the PoV of that person or group. DES (talk) 22:14, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
See also Wikipedia talk:Neutral point of view#External links DES (talk) 22:19, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

How could I translate any article to my language for other readers?

I´m really fascinated by wikipedia, but some times its very slow to translate any article. Could you tell me, how could I and my friends help to translate articles to Czech language and place these translations to wikipedia for others, please? Thank you.

your best bet would be to ask on the Czech wikipedia wether they have any formal organisations.Geni 09:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

commons picture of the day

Can I put the template for the wikimedia commons picture of the day on my wikipedia userpage. How so? --Ballchef 23:29, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Template:Potd/2005-11-9 (en) should work provided you can find someone who can get the code to prepend a tag to refer to the commons correctly. If I try, it puts another template tag in from of that. - 12:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

November 8

HoH or H2o

Hello my name is Candyce Frichtel My e-mail address is <removed>

I`am a first year med student and my instructor is saying that HoH and H2o are the same meaning (or component) is this a true statement or not: the reason for my question and curiosity are : i looked up the definition of both and they dont seem to fall in the same category ; although they both have water as a basis for their chemical make-up. i would like a response to my question so that i can be clear about whether HoH and H2o are the same chemical make-up or do they differ. Websters collegiate dictionary The concise columbia encyclopedia HoH and H2o web pages

Hello. While this is more of a question for the Reference desk, yes, they have the same compostion, as the H+ (actually, a H3O ion) and the hydroxide combine to create H2O. You might want to ask there for a more detailed explanation, though. Titoxd(?!?) 06:58, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
It's HOH and H2O with a capital O (oh, not zero). What I remember is that you write two H's if you have to separate hydrogen atoms but H2 if they have combined with a molecular bond. JIP | Talk 07:01, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
The H2 notation simply says the total number in the molecule, or the proportion, in the case of an ionic crystal. The H-0-H form shows the actual structure (except that they are not in a straight line - if they were, the world would be a less interesting place, probably with no liquid water). All of them are, of course, to some extent, simplifications. --David Woolley 13:37, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Link a page from a picture

Normally when you click a picture, it takes you to the picture. How do you link a page to it so that when you click the picture it takes you to that page instead of the picture?

Dada1981 07:31, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure, but I think it's important that it go to the image page in every case. That's because people need an easy way to check the copyright status or other information about the picture. Also, consistent behaviour seems a good thing. Notinasnaid 08:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
What about on a user page? I would like an image to go to another page so that I can remove the frame and caption, is it possible? --Ballchef 11:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I think you can, Here's something I copied from other Wiki sites and the picture takes you to another page: <iimg>Events:Science Career Expo! </iimg> if you go to edit, notice that the page link is in front of the picture link but separated by a "!". I just don't know what "<iimg>" is. Dada1981 16:53, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Lannoy - 1623 painting by Croy

On the page there is an image "Lannoy vue par Charles Cröy en 1623". You state that the image is in the public domain.

I wish to use the image in a forthcoming book but would like to get access to the best quality original possible. Do you know where or how this can be obtained?

Thanking you in anticipation.

George English

This image apparently is taken from the "albums de croÿ" (note spelling) of Charles de Croÿ. No idea where to get a better scan. There seems to be (or have been) an exposition on these albums at the Chateau de Flers in Villeneuve-d'Ascq in France [6]. Lupo 09:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
By the way, it is often the case that you have to buy or license a high quality image. Just because something is in the public domain doesn't mean it is freely available. What you do obtain, you may use in any way (unless you obtained it under a license). 17:07, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

How to handle potential vandalism?

On the Tekken (2006 film) article we have a user (User:, he seems to change IP's every day he comes to edit FWIW) consistantly adding unverifiable (WP:V) information (specifically a non-existant cast list). He then goes to each of the individual actor's pages and adds "Tekken" to the actors filmography. I've done the test/test2/test3/test4 template bit, hoping this might at least get the guy to talk (since this could be a content dispute), but so far no response. There's discussion on Talk:Tekken (2006 film), but this user hasn't participated or is unwilling to participate. What's worse, the incorrect info on this page is being used as source on other sites, so I'd really like it if this guy would knock it off. So my question is: is this vandalism? A content dispute? How can I resolve it given that the individual won't respond? -Locke Cole 11:50, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

  • If it can't be verified and the user is not prepared to listen to reason, then -yes- I would consider it vandalism. Since he regularly changes IPs, I'd suggest you ask for protection of the Tekken article, rather than a block, because they are likely going to try and evade it. - Mgm|(talk) 13:19, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Thanks, will give that a shot then. =) -Locke Cole 23:22, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

castor seed

dear sir, please i would like to know how much castor seed can be collected per hectar? thanx. mekonnen gebabaw. my e mail address, <deleted - see instructions> (preceding unsigned comment by Mekonnen (talkcontribs) )

A Complete Article on Backplane Buses

Dear Concerned! I'm a student of electrical engineering and wants to ask some information on; 1) Backplane buses (ISA, EISA, AGP, PCI).(Complete article) 2) Advantages and Limitations 3) Which one is faster?What is the data transfer rate? Please email me these things on this email address: <deleted - see instructions>

Regards, Tehseen Aslam (A student at University of Engg. & Tech., Lahore, Pakistan.)

  • As the instructions at the head of the page indicate, this is not a page for factual questions. You need the Wikipedia:Reference desk, specifically the science part. This page is to ask questions about the use of the Wikipedia itself. --bodnotbod 18:35, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Bruce Lee Page

Can someone please look at and remove the stupid comments from the Bruce Lee page. I love this site and use it all the time, but don't know how to do something like this myself and the help pages are too complex. Thank you.

So sloooow

When is Wikipedia going to upgrade its servers? It's like waiting for Christmas. -Gillean666 21:49, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

They are upgraded quite often. Problem is that we then get more vistors which overloads the next lot.Geni 22:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
When it gets more money donated. --David Woolley 22:22, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Movie screenshot usage.

When uploading a screenshot, the option bar notes that one screenshot per article can be used, but I can't seem to find any other times when this restriction is stated in the usage policy files. I'd just like confirmation that there is a one screenshot per article restriction.

KLSymph 02:23, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Whilst there is no explicit restriction (there's cases where several can be justified), we try to encourage keeping the use of fair use images to a minimum - the legal validity of having multiple images is often pretty shaky. A one-fair-use-image maximum is, if possible, a good rule of thumb to stick to. (Free images are even better, but understandably hard to get for films!) Shimgray | talk | 02:30, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
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